SBNATION: Why Ex-Oriole Bobby Grich will never make the HOF (+ why Jeter should not be first ballot)

[Can_of_corn]

Pete Rose. Is. Famous.

Pete Rose. Is. Infamous.

[Three Run Homer]

Both Grich and Jeter easily deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.

The fact that Jeter will make it on the first ballot while Grich will never make it illustrates that HOF voters are subject to a lot of the same biases that plague average fans--they overvalue batting average and undervalue walks and power; their perception of defensive ability depends too much on highlight reel plays; and they overvalue players who were lucky enough to have great teammates.

[weams]

Pete Rose. Is. Infamous.

Willie Mays. Mickey Mantle.

[El Gordo]

Both Grich and Jeter easily deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.

The fact that Jeter will make it on the first ballot while Grich will never make it illustrates that HOF voters are subject to a lot of the same biases that plague average fans--they overvalue batting average and undervalue walks and power; their perception of defensive ability depends too much on highlight reel plays; and they overvalue players who were lucky enough to have great teammates.

I think it just boils down to media hype. Jeter is much more media sexy than Grich He played for the MFY, did commercials and TV appearances, was seen with sexy women, was Capt. of a perennial contender. He had decent numbers to go along with that, so of course he's in the HOF. Grich just has the numbers to go in.

[Can_of_corn]

Willie Mays. Mickey Mantle.

On the game.

[weams]

On the game.

Post career.

[SteveA]

I mean this is cute and all but it's a name. We all know the point of the HOF is to enshrine the best, most important players of all time. Bo Jackson is probably one of the most famous athletes of all time, should he be in the Hall of Fame, simply because "fame" is in the title?

No, but I also don't believe that rigid statistical criteria should be applied. Even though it might not make someone a better player, winning championships and games and lots of games, for example, is something I believe that should be taken into account for HoF consideration. And yes, perhaps even "intangibles". Does that mean that Yankees will be disproportionaly represented? Yeah, probably, and as a Yankee hater I don't like that. But road attendance figures over the years will show that people across the country are more interested in the Yankees than most teams. Just the way it is.

Believe me, I would be just as upset at Frobby if Jeter were unanimous when so many greats have not been. I'm not making that argument. But I also don't believe in a HoF where you just order all the players that ever played by WAR and draw a line and everyone above it is in. I don't believe that the statistics a player generates are the only way he can have an impact on the game.

[weams]

No, but I also don't believe that rigid statistical criteria should be applied. Even though it might not make someone a better player, winning championships and games and lots of games, for example, is something I believe that should be taken into account for HoF consideration. And yes, perhaps even "intangibles". Does that mean that Yankees will be disproportionaly represented? Yeah, probably, and as a Yankee hater I don't like that. But road attendance figures over the years will show that people across the country are more interested in the Yankees than most teams. Just the way it is.

Believe me, I would be just as upset at Frobby if Jeter were unanimous when so many greats have not been. I'm not making that argument. But I also don't believe in a HoF where you just order all the players that ever played by WAR and draw a line and everyone above it is in. I don't believe that the statistics a player generates are the only way he can have an impact on the game.

I absolutely agree here. But. I do think that if the hall were divided in half. Jeter would find himself on the losing side.

[Can_of_corn]

Post career.

MLB Employee

[weams]

MLB Employee

Absolutely. Addict.

[Frobby]

I am going to take the very rare liberty of speaking for Frank (Frobby.)

Perhaps it is if because since players such as Willie Mays, Henry Aaron, Joe DiMaggio, and Ted Williams WERE NOT unanimously voted it, then it will turn his stomach if the voters all decided to bestow that honor (the very first player EVER to be voted into the Hall-of-Fame unanimously) on Derek Jeter.

And if that's the case, then I completely agree with Frank/Frobby.

And Frank, my apologies in advance if I spoke out of turn on your behalf.

Incredible as it seems, Joe DiMaggio wasn't even elected in his first year of eligibility.

[Can_of_corn]

Incredible as it seems, Joe DiMaggio wasn't even elected in his first year of eligibility.

Mid West Bias.

[OFFNY]

I am going to take the very rare liberty of speaking for Frank (Frobby.)

Perhaps it is if because since players such as Willie Mays, Henry Aaron, Joe DiMaggio, and Ted Williams WERE NOT unanimously voted it, then it will turn his stomach if the voters all decided to bestow that honor (the very first player EVER to be voted into the Hall-of-Fame unanimously) on Derek Jeter.

And if that's the case, then I completely agree with Frank/Frobby.

And Frank, my apologies in advance if I spoke out of turn on your behalf.

Incredible as it seems, Joe DiMaggio wasn't even elected in his first year of eligibility.

I know.

Neither were Whitey Ford or Yogi Berra.

Amazing and strange, but true.

[weams]

I know.

Neither were Whitey Ford or Yogi Berra.

Amazing and strange, but true.

I can see it with Whitey. But Yogi?

[TonySoprano]

I can see it with Whitey. But Yogi?

First Ballot HOFers