Peter Angelos' Redemption

[berettafan]

I agree to an extent as Tony-OH would be the first to agree that this is a discussion board.

Why continue to harp on old history, when it's clear to most that things are 180 degrees different with this team and this team is playing winning baseball in October?

I don't think responding to a thread on the very subject with an opinion is really harping. I think the very subject of the thread acknowledges the issue exists.

This is baseball talk, not afternoon tea at the preacher's house. I think the passion displayed here is where you get the awesomely loud crowds and fire for the game. Not just the people but the game itself.

LOVE IT!!!!!

HOW 'BOUT DEM OHS HON!!!!!!!!!

[Redskins Rick]

I don't think responding to a thread on the very subject with an opinion is really harping. I think the very subject of the thread acknowledges the issue exists.

This is baseball talk, not afternoon tea at the preacher's house. I think the passion displayed here is where you get the awesomely loud crowds and fire for the game. Not just the people but the game itself.

LOVE IT!!!!!

HOW 'BOUT DEM OHS HON!!!!!!!!!

True, and valid point.

Unfortunately, some of us have been on other discussions with this same topic and it's been beaten to death many times in OH.

[Es4M11]

I find it somewhat narrow minded to begrudge Angelos for the years 2000-2007, and then not even mention the great things that Angelos did for the organization and the city of Baltimore during the 90's. He brought this team back to respectability and was the driving force that created the most beautiful ball park in all of baseball. Don't forget Angelos brought us two playoff appearences and the highest payroll in all of baseball in the late 90's.

Angelos was a hindrance to the team's success from 2000-2007, but he was great in the 90's and has allowed the baseball guys to make the calls for the past 6-7 years. By my count he has had more good years than bad. It seems to me most people's attitudes are skewed because 2000-2007 was such a tough time to be an O's fan.

[Redskins Rick]

I find it somewhat narrow minded to begrudge Angelos for the years 2000-2007, and then not even mention the great things that Angelos did for the organization and the city of Baltimore during the 90's. He brought this team back to respectability and was the driving force that created the most beautiful ball park in all of baseball. Don't forget Angelos brought us two playoff appearences and the highest payroll in all of baseball in the late 90's.

Angelos was a hindrance to the team's success from 2000-2007, but he was great in the 90's and has allowed the baseball guys to make the calls for the past 6-7 years. By my count he has had more good years than bad. It seems to me most people's attitudes are skewed because 2000-2007 was such a tough time to be an O's fan.

1997, was the start, when Angelos greatness was greatly tarnished.

[Es4M11]

Okay, so 1998-2007 was a down time. My point still stands.

[Redskins Rick]

Okay, so 1998-2007 was a down time. My point still stands.

Yes, your point stands, this isn't the same climate in town, and I have said so many times.

We haven't seen the results until the 2012 season. So some people will lump 2007-2011, with the 1998-2007 years, which is fourteen years, and while 3 years does take some of that bitterness away and to continue to win, will help.

[weams]

Yes, your point stands, this isn't the same climate in town, and I have said so many times.

We haven't seen the results until the 2012 season. So some people will lump 2007-2011, with the 1998-2007 years, which is fourteen years, and while 3 years does take some of that bitterness away and to continue to win, will help.

2007 through 2011 were all seasons that have lead to this.

I don't think for an instant that without the strength of Andy MacPhail's baseball gravitas that we would ever have gotten back to this place.

[Es4M11]

I don't equate won-loss record as a direct reflection of the owners performance. Starting in 2008 and continued in the following years a clear direction was established, we brought in some great young players and finally got some baseball guys in to run the show. Angelos was doing his job as far as I'm concerned. Yea it took a little while before we started seeing the results we were hoping for, but we had to wait for those kids on the team to grow up.

[Redskins Rick]

2007 through 2011 were all seasons that have lead to this.

I don't think for an instant that without the strength of Andy MacPhail's baseball gravitas that we would ever have gotten back to this place.

Good point, it was a rebuilding process, painful, but necessary.

[PeteU]

I find it somewhat narrow minded to begrudge Angelos for the years 2000-2007, and then not even mention the great things that Angelos did for the organization and the city of Baltimore during the 90's. He brought this team back to respectability and was the driving force that created the most beautiful ball park in all of baseball. Don't forget Angelos brought us two playoff appearences and the highest payroll in all of baseball in the late 90's.

Angelos was a hindrance to the team's success from 2000-2007, but he was great in the 90's and has allowed the baseball guys to make the calls for the past 6-7 years. By my count he has had more good years than bad. It seems to me most people's attitudes are skewed because 2000-2007 was such a tough time to be an O's fan.

Actually, he didn't come on board until long after OPACY had opened, so he wasn't part of the team that got it built. But he did capitalize on its success and build a "big market" reputation for the club his first couple of years, and it paid off in 1996 and 1997. Unfortunately, the wheels came off after that.

[SouthernBird]

Once he got rid of the suspect scouting manager I think they turned it around...

[Es4M11]

Actually, he didn't come on board until long after OPACY had opened, so he wasn't part of the team that got it built. But he did capitalize on its success and build a "big market" reputation for the club his first couple of years, and it paid off in 1996 and 1997. Unfortunately, the wheels came off after that.

You're absolutely right, I always had it in my head that he took over the team in 1990. I was pretty young then and obviously my memory of those events is not as clear as I thought it was. Thanks for clearing that up.

All the same, Angelos came into ownership guns blazing and it was a great time to be an Orioles fan from 1993-1997.

[Nevermore]

Peter Angelos will leave a mixed legacy as the O's owner. It took him too long to recognize his mistakes. But, at least it seems that he finally did. I'll never forget those things he did that contributed to the 14 lean years, but I don't judge him solely on that, either. His legacy is still being written and I'm glad we are seeing some positive chapters now.

This is basically how I see it. My personal "jury" is still out when it comes to Peter Angelos. One good thing: our ballpark is still "Oriole Park at Camden Yards." No commercial naming, not "Esskay Field" or "Under Armour Park" or any such thing.

But I still remember those 14 straight losing seasons. Let's hope that Angelos has learned from his horrible mistakes and will give Duquette, Showalter & Co. free rein to keep our Orioles as a winning team.

Now, let's go ALL THE WAY!!!!

[Palmoripken]

I just remember hearing we'll never win with him as owner which I frankly thought was silly because that's such an absolutist statement and the fact that we had won with him as owner in his early years. His ultimate legacy will be mixed but I am glad that instead of Al Davis who grew more intrusive and worse in his older years that Peter's taken a step back.

[Redskins Rick]

You're absolutely right, I always had it in my head that he took over the team in 1990. I was pretty young then and obviously my memory of those events is not as clear as I thought it was. Thanks for clearing that up.

All the same, Angelos came into ownership guns blazing and it was a great time to be an Orioles fan from 1993-1997.

1993 - 3rd place in Divison.

1994 - 2nd place in Divison and Baseball strike

1995 - another 3rd place in the Division.

Yes, 96 was a trip to the ALCS and 97 and another trip to the ALCS.

96 & 97 was great times, but 93-95 wasn't all that great.