TT: The Orioles should let Duquette walk

[soxhotcorner14]

Let's not forget that SoxHotCorner previously has spoken very approvingly of the changes Duquette made to the Red Sox organization while he played there. In some cases, you may have folks who have a legitimate beef; in other cases, you may have folks who were doing a mediocre job and don't like having their turf invaded. So, it's a bit hard to judge whether any complaints that have been made are legit. For example, I think we know for sure that some scouts grumbled when Duquette realigned the scouting department, but I think the results there have been for the better.

Expanding on what Frobby said. Duq is an intelligent guy and is pretty damn good at building a player development program and getting good people to develop the talent. There is also some downfall to how he does business. He rubs a lot of people the wrong way and can be undermining at times. When I was there we had a damn good player dev/coaching staff. Most of them became big league managers. Duq is a big micro manager and that puts people off. Back then he was phoning in lineups to the coaches and not allowing them autonomy to write their own lineups. Which I have first hand knowledge of so that isn't speculation. I use to listen to the Coach ***** about it in his office. He's very chummy with a guy who he brought from BOS too. He had this guy going around spying on players and coaches. People in the industry know about this guy. So as you can see, there are positives that Duq brings but you can see how he would wear out his welcome or rub some people the wrong way as well.

[Stotle]

There may be some, maybe even the majority of owners in the last twenty years, who do "think like partners." (See MASN dispute, however, as one example perhaps as to whether Potter is one of those). But I disagree that it is the "solitary miser" image that best captures them. I believe that their profile would be more that of very successful, dominating, strong willed men with considerable ego projected on to their sports holdings in a much more emotional and, at times, even irrational way than with their other businesses. And historically throughout baseball, owners have been nothing at all like collegial, let's all get along partners that you suggest. Read Lords of the Realm, a great account of the history of baseball owners.

Good book; I think the sheer volume of money coursing through baseball today has had a much more unifying impact on ownership than you give credit to. It's a different world than it was in the mid-90s.

[Brooks The Great]

Expanding on what Frobby said. Duq is an intelligent guy and is pretty damn good at building a player development program and getting good people to develop the talent. There is also some downfall to how he does business. He rubs a lot of people the wrong way and can be undermining at times. When I was there we had a damn good player dev/coaching staff. Most of them became big league managers. Duq is a big micro manager and that puts people off. Back then he was phoning in lineups to the coaches and not allowing them autonomy to write their own lineups. Which I have first hand knowledge of so that isn't speculation. I use to listen to the Coach ***** about it in his office. He's very chummy with a guy who he brought from BOS too. He had this guy going around spying on players and coaches. People in the industry know about this guy. So as you can see, there are positives that Duq brings but you can see how he would wear out his welcome or rub some people the wrong way as well.

I remember when we originally hired Duquette, you came onto the board and shared your experiences in the minors when he was in charge of the Red Sox. Some of the best posts I have read on this board.

Duquette helped take a solid base that Andy MacPhail set up for him and made a lot of great micro-managing decisions that maximized our 40-man roster and helped take us to the playoffs two out of the past three years. But if we can get Hoffman and another player for Duquette, I will happily let him go and hope that Angelos is open to suggestions from our baseball people like Buck and Brady so that we hire another great GM.

[AdamK]

Fascinating insight lately. New info I've not read.

If Dan is a micromanager, and Buck is a micromanager... how much overlap could there be? Could that be a problem for either guy? It's been a couple of years now.

Buck involves himself in all sorts of organization details that probably don't fall under the umbrella as manager, and while some of these initiatives may not necessarily be Dan's responsibility here as GM, it sounds like they would with the blue jays.

Buck is also "not paranoid, but".

I'm just wondering, in light of more first hand knowledge of DD, whether that could be a contributing factor in the "toxic" situation. I hope not.

[weams]

It is obvious as usual that Tony was spot on here.

[weams]

And I agree but he said "if the compensation is right". What is your definition and his definition of "enough compensation". Is Jeff Hoffman the minimum value you want back? Would that be enough?

Hoffman suits me. We can and will get more or he will stay.

[weams]

At this point, if the Jays are unwilling to give more, do you think it's a situation that will work with Duquette continuing on as GM?

Absolutely. We went more than overboard to give Dan his shot. Plus, we get to file the tampering charges and use Dan's testimony. Win. Win.

[weams]

Dan is really not emotional. He will do a good job regardless of where he is.

[TonySoprano]

And I agree but he said "if the compensation is right". What is your definition and his definition of "enough compensation". Is Jeff Hoffman the minimum value you want back? Would that be enough?

It would be for me.

[weams]

I don't doubt that. I just wonder if this has created any tension between Duquette and others in the organization. Tensions that might make for problems going forward.

Not with anyone that can't be removed I am thinking.

[Austin]

At this point, if the Jays are unwilling to give more, do you think it's a situation that will work with Duquette continuing on as GM?

If the Jays are willing to give us Hoffman, we need to do the deal. I don't mind holding out to see if we can get more but Hoffman is enough to get this done, IMO.

[Malike]

Is there no standard anymore?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/AkFqg5wAuFk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[weams]

Is there no standard anymore?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/AkFqg5wAuFk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

They took the standard from us.

[weams]

If the Jays are willing to give us Hoffman, we need to do the deal. I don't mind holding out to see if we can get more but Hoffman is enough to get this done, IMO.

You are willing to forgo the locked up tampering solution for only Hoffman?

[Austin]

You are willing to forgo the locked up tampering solution for only Hoffman?

Yes, Hoffman is much more than I expected. That blows away the compensation the Red Sox received for Theo. I know the situations are very different but it's the only precedent I can think of. I don't mind Angelos driving a hard bargain and trying to get more but Hoffman is good enough for me.