TT: The Orioles should let Duquette walk

[waroriole]

MLB did not hate either team or it's owners.

MLB has nothing to do with whether or not Angelos accepts.

[weams]

MLB has nothing to do with whether or not Angelos accepts.

I would assume that if Toronto wanted to offer enough, Peter would be smart enough to accept. I guess they didn't.

[Prayin4Reign]

For all we know there has been discussion. Amenable is not a word I would use to describe Peter Angelos.

a?me?na?ble/əˈmēnəb(ə)l,əˈmenəb(ə)l/

adjective

(of a person) open and responsive to suggestion; easily persuaded or controlled.

Oh I agree 100% which makes this all that more ugly.

[weams]

If Toronto had really wanted the Duke, they should have allowed him to negotiate his own compensation. That would have been cool if he really, really wanted to go.

[weams]

Dan says;

“I will talk about it when the time is appropriate."

[Frobby]

Dan says;

“I will talk about it when the time is appropriate."

Where is that quote from?

[weams]

Where is that quote from?

Sun. Yesterday I guess.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-dan-duquette-orioles-blue-jays-questions-answers-20150119-story.html#page=1

[Stotle]

Totally disagree with this. Theo had one year remaining on his contract, and all indications were that they were ready to part ways. The timing was reasonable - right after the world series. This situation is very different, and every difference would represent a sizable increase to the compensation Boston received in the Theo case.

The contract length is irrelevant -- the contract gets torn up. If the issue is Baltimore having to replace a GM this close to the season starting then I guess that would depend on how much of that is on Baltimore dragging out the process (if they have in fact been uncooperative on some basic fronts). The remaining years don't matter from Baltimore's standpoint, either. To make that argument Baltimore would have to basically say they have such an amazing deal with Duquette that they are giving up massive value. Based on how much MLB values GMs (by salary) I'd toss that in the "nearly impossible argument to make" bin.

When Boston let Theo go he was a more highly valued asset, based on compensation. Duquette's compensation package is right around the average MLB salary for the position; Theo was paid above market prices.

I'm not saying this to be difficult; it's just tough for me to see an argument whereby the market should value Duquette today more than it valued Theo after his last year in Boston.

[Beast]

So we're going with all of this nonsense about DD eventually leaving throughout 2015???!!!

I highly doubt that. It's just not the way executive searches work. I've been involved in several such searches, and typically an institution is willing to spend one search year going after their top candidate. If they don't succeed, the next year they move on to a different target. If this report out of Toronto is correct, and we don't know that yet as the same thing was reported in December, it means in all likelihood that Toronto has finally gotten the message that only extraordinary compensation -- beyond anything they are willing to give up -- could pry DD loose. I always expected the situation to end when the Blue Jays FO decided it was time to move on and stop wasting everybody's time. I also expect Dan will continue to do a fine job as the O's GM, the "toxicity" will fade away, Dan and Buck will work effectively together -- even if some tension remains between management control freaks -- and things will return more or less to normal, although I'm sure this issue has been very distracting this offseason. When Dan decides to speak, he will have to provide a comforting story of his view how this played out. But that is within the realm of possibility. The "firestorm" here has been no worse than the firestorm when Dan was first hired at the end of that disastrous search, and the O's recovered from that.

[Number5]

The contract length is irrelevant -- the contract gets torn up. If the issue is Baltimore having to replace a GM this close to the season starting then I guess that would depend on how much of that is on Baltimore dragging out the process (if they have in fact been uncooperative on some basic fronts). The remaining years don't matter from Baltimore's standpoint, either. To make that argument Baltimore would have to basically say they have such an amazing deal with Duquette that they are giving up massive value. Based on how much MLB values GMs (by salary) I'd toss that in the "nearly impossible argument to make" bin.

When Boston let Theo go he was a more highly valued asset, based on compensation. Duquette's compensation package is right around the average MLB salary for the position; Theo was paid above market prices.

I'm not saying this to be difficult; it's just tough for me to see an argument whereby the market should value Duquette today more than it valued Theo after his last year in Boston.

The contract length is very relevant. The compensation is WHY the contract would be torn up. If sufficient compensation is not offered, permission is not granted and the contract stays in force. PA has made it clear TWICE that je has not granted permission for Toronto to interview DD and that DD is under contract for four years.

Cubs and Red Sox are in different leagues, much less different divisions. Toronto and Baltimore are divisional rivals. Chicago properly asked for permission to interview Epstein. Toronto did not, tried to negotiate thru the media and MLB -using Baltimore's MASN lawsuit as leverage - and most probably tampered with DD. Toronto also quite clearly tampered with Williams of the White Sox.

DD is definitely more valuable right now that Epstein was at that time. The amount of his salary is not relevant. That Boston pays more than Baltimore comes as a surprise to nobody. That certainly is not an indication of value. Frankly, the reverse is true, especially coming off the year DD just had. Sorry, I just don't agree in any way with your take on this. It seems clear that PA views this pretty much as I do, and the decision is his to make.

[Carllamy]

The contract length is irrelevant -- the contract gets torn up. If the issue is Baltimore having to replace a GM this close to the season starting then I guess that would depend on how much of that is on Baltimore dragging out the process (if they have in fact been uncooperative on some basic fronts). The remaining years don't matter from Baltimore's standpoint, either. To make that argument Baltimore would have to basically say they have such an amazing deal with Duquette that they are giving up massive value. Based on how much MLB values GMs (by salary) I'd toss that in the "nearly impossible argument to make" bin.

When Boston let Theo go he was a more highly valued asset, based on compensation. Duquette's compensation package is right around the average MLB salary for the position; Theo was paid above market prices.

I'm not saying this to be difficult; it's just tough for me to see an argument whereby the market should value Duquette today more than it valued Theo after his last year in Boston.

The market should value Duquette highly for precisely the reasons you have given. Duquette just won the award for being Baseball's best GM, so he is performing at a high level , as proven by the fact that some other team wants to hire him away from us.But, he is being paid an average salary. That is what is known in business as a bargain. We are being asked to forego this bargain and replace it with the unsure thing of a new GM. That should require compensation.

For this reason, and the many others provided by others in this thread, there is no way the O's should not receive considerable compensation for Duquette, and if the organization doesn't get it, then shame on them for being poor business people and not receiving the proper compensation for a commodity which Toronto's OWN ACTIONS are showing is one of high value.

[Stotle]

The contract length is very relevant. The compensation is WHY the contract would be torn up. If sufficient compensation is not offered, permission is not granted and the contract stays in force. PA has made it clear TWICE that je has not granted permission for Toronto to interview DD and that DD is under contract for four years.

Cubs and Red Sox are in different leagues, much less different divisions. Toronto and Baltimore are divisional rivals. Chicago properly asked for permission to interview Epstein. Toronto did not, tried to negotiate thru the media and MLB -using Baltimore's MASN lawsuit as leverage - and most probably tampered with DD. Toronto also quite clearly tampered with Williams of the White Sox.

DD is definitely more valuable right now that Epstein was at that time. The amount of his salary is not relevant. That Boston pays more than Baltimore comes as a surprise to nobody. That certainly is not an indication of value. Frankly, the reverse is true, especially coming off the year DD just had. Sorry, I just don't agree in any way with your take on this. It seems clear that PA views this pretty much as I do, and the decision is his to make.

That's fine. I don't mind disagreeing. I guess if Duquette leaves we'll see what the package is.

[Stotle]

The market should value Duquette highly for precisely the reasons you have given. Duquette just won the award for being Baseball's best GM, so he is performing at a high level , as proven by the fact that some other team wants to hire him away from us.But, he is being paid an average salary. That is what is known in business as a bargain. We are being asked to forego this bargain and replace it with the unsure thing of a new GM. That should require compensation.

For this reason, and the many others provided by others in this thread, there is no way the O's should not receive considerable compensation for Duquette, and if the organization doesn't get it, then shame on them for being poor business people and not receiving the proper compensation for a commodity which Toronto's OWN ACTIONS are showing is one of high value.

You do get compensation. About the same amount you'd get for a player you value enough to pay $3 MM or so a year. Probably a little less, since players carry inherently more value than FO types and when you trade for a player you trade for the contract. Toronto is giving up compensation for the right to pay Duquette more than he is currently making.

A GM of the year award is nice, but doesn't really establish value. Loaded question, but assume all GMs are free agent and there is a draft. Where do you think Duquette realistically comes off the board? Two years of recent track record that gives no indication as to organization building -- just pure Major League results -- stacked up against Mozeliak, Epstein, Beane, Friedman, etc. I don't know the answer, but I'm certain that it doesn't center on which GMs have most recently won Executive of the Year awards.

[tntoriole]

You do get compensation. About the same amount you'd get for a player you value enough to pay $3 MM or so a year. Probably a little less, since players carry inherently more value than FO types and when you trade for a player you trade for the contract. Toronto is giving up compensation for the right to pay Duquette more than he is currently making.

A GM of the year award is nice, but doesn't really establish value. Loaded question, but assume all GMs are free agent and there is a draft. Where do you think Duquette realistically comes off the board? Two years of recent track record that gives no indication as to organization building -- just pure Major League results -- stacked up against Mozeliak, Epstein, Beane, Friedman, etc. I don't know the answer, but I'm certain that it doesn't center on which GMs have most recently won Executive of the Year awards.

That's all fine. And in a world where our owner thinks like a baseball fan, then maybe that happens. But you do know that our owner is Potter, right? And you just think that Peter Angelos is going to play nicely, give MLB and Toronto what they want, be cooperative and do what they do in Boston or New York? After the tampering that has gone on in this process and the damage done to this organization as a result, I would not be surprised that Angelos either demands MLB take a pound of flesh out of Toronto for tampering or Potter goes outside the process and ties up Toronto and MLB in yet another lengthy lawsuit. Or he may end up yet firing Duquette and then suing him and Toronto and MLB for malfeasance and breach of contract.

[glenn__davis]

A GM of the year award is nice, but doesn't really establish value. Loaded question, but assume all GMs are free agent and there is a draft. Where do you think Duquette realistically comes off the board? Two years of recent track record that gives no indication as to organization building -- just pure Major League results -- stacked up against Mozeliak, Epstein, Beane, Friedman, etc. I don't know the answer, but I'm certain that it doesn't center on which GMs have most recently won Executive of the Year awards.

Regardless of where you or anyone else values Duquette, the Blue Jays certainly seem to value him very highly. It seems they continue to pursue him despite being told twice that he's not on the market. The Orioles need to get what they can. The contract length is important. Both teams seem to value his services, not to mention that the Jays are a division rival. I am fine with Duquette leaving, but you can't just let him go. The Jays need to be hurt a little in the deal.