All the moves count, no matter when they were made

[Ohfan67]

Do you think that O's will miss his bat for the next four years? That was the contract. Ages 34 through 38. $14M a year. You really want to sign up for that with his injury history?

I would have taken the risk/expectation that he would underperform the last two years of the deal. That was not an awful contract.

[Babypowder]

Do you think that O's will miss his bat for the next four years? That was the contract. Ages 34 through 38. $14M a year. You really want to sign up for that with his injury history

I think DD wanted to. It's close. Why weren't we on A LaRouche? Cheap. Plays a good 1b, allows you to move Davis to RF?

Because he's not very good? I'm fairly confident Steve Pearce puts up a higher WAR than LaRoche this year. LaRoche is also old and according to the metrics he's actually brutal defensively. Also, why would we want to move Davis to RF? Willingly move our big slow underperforming 1B to the outfield? Why?

[PA724_Oriole]

I would have taken the risk/expectation that he would underperform the last two years of the deal. That was not an awful contract.

I agree. Ppl can say what they want about injury history. You have to keep that in mind, but wr have guys in their early twenties already with injury history and just because their young, it doesn't mean they have a better chance of being successful for the next 2-4 years.

If anyone here could say they would be willing to give Chris Davis 10mil a year, even while he's younger, but don't want Cruz at his current age and price, I think are foolish. IMO.

[Three Run Homer]

This officially takes the cake for sun shiniest post I've ever read. I'm all for avoiding hand-wringing solely because there hasn't been much noteworthy action, but do you realize how long this list would be for most teams if you went down to the same level of transactions across the league? Even going that deep you came up with 8 actual off-season moves, listed a trade from last year, and listed players on the roster that will once again be on the roster. God love you; I can't imagine a world where you are displeased or even marginally miffed at the Orioles or anything the org does. And that's said with love and sincerity -- I envy your ability to have a level of optimism and support that allows basically any set of facts to come together positively.

I agree that counting players returning from injuries as "offseason moves" is stretching things. But the original list could have been longer. For instance it didn't include the recent signings of Chris Parmelee and Dane De La Rosa, either of which could wind up having an impact at the major league level this year. De La Rosa in particular seems like the proverbial $20 bill lying on the sidewalk if he's healthy.

[El Gordo]

I don't disagree, but sometimes you gotta pay. I think DD wanted to resign Cruz. We are going to miss his bat.

This year maybe, next not so much, after that, ouch. Even chimpanzees know how to differ instant gratification. Some O's fans, not so much.

[El Gordo]

I would love to hear about the all the moves we should have made but didn't. But then that would leave those proponents open to ridicule. Better that they keep to generalities.

[wildcard]

I would have taken the risk/expectation that he would underperform the last two years of the deal. That was not an awful contract.

Obviously that is where you and DD differ. He doesn't want multi year contracts with 30 something players unless they have great defensive value like Hardy. Being on the downward performance curve for an expensive offensive player does not appear to be in his philosophy. Its hard to argue with that from a guy who has put a winner together IMO.

We have seen the Yankees do this many times. Sign the 30 something offensive player to a multi year contract. Now they have several of those contracts that are serving as dead weight to hold their team out of the playoffs. That is what DD appears to be trying to avoid.

[wildcard]

Do you think that O's will miss his bat for the next four years? That was the contract. Ages 34 through 38. $14M a year. You really want to sign up for that with his injury history

I think DD wanted to. It's close. Why weren't we on A LaRouche? Cheap. Plays a good 1b, allows you to move Davis to RF?

Spending 25m on two years of a player that is 35-36 years old does not appear to be in DD's philosophy. LaRoche appears to be on the downward curve that DD tries to avoid. DD will spend on younger, cheaper players who are on the up side of that curve. Its a pretty simple philosophy but it takes discipline to stay on course with it.

[wildcard]

I agree that counting players returning from injuries as "offseason moves" is stretching things. But the original list could have been longer. For instance it didn't include the recent signings of Chris Parmelee and Dane De La Rosa, either of which could wind up having an impact at the major league level this year. De La Rosa in particular seems like the proverbial $20 bill lying on the sidewalk if he's healthy.

Both Parmelee and De La Rosa signed minor league contracts. It will take good performance in the minors coupled with an injury or non performance by someone on the major league roster to get them to the majors. Cheap one year players are something the fit into DD's philosophy as depth IMO. In fact its an important part of his philosophy to be prepared for injuries. There is just no way to know what their chances are to make the majors this year.

I am not saying that you should include them in your list. I just didn't go that deep in the depth chart in mine.

[Roll Tide]

Obviously that is where you and DD differ. He doesn't want multi year contracts with 30 something players unless they have great defensive value like Hardy. Being on the downward performance curve for an expensive offensive player does not appear to be in his philosophy. Its hard to argue with that from a guy who has put a winner together IMO.

We have seen the Yankees do this many times. Sign the 30 something offensive player to a multi year contract. Now they have several of those contracts that are serving as dead weight to hold their team out of the playoffs. That is what DD appears to be trying to avoid.

I honestly can't believe I'm going to take the bait here. I don't care if the Orioles make 1 move in the off season or 30. My problem is the value of the actual move that's being made. The player doesn't have to cost 20 million per season in order to be happy.

Travis Snider was a nice pick up considering what we've given up so far to get him. But here's the thing...in order for Snider to be a big win he has to take the next step from where he is now which is a pedestrian MLB player.

If he doesn't you have him for 2 seasons of mediocrity and traded away 2 players from your system that may or may not develop.

If he does become the offensive force that we all hope he leaves because Duquette can't afford to keep him and you potentially pick up a comp pick that needs years to develop.

I think you mentioned in a previous post that Duquette didn't want multi year contracts with 30 something guys. I don't believe that he didn't want to bring Nick and Cruz back. In fact they didn't even offer arbitration to Markakis that would've at least returned a comp pick because they thought they had a better chance of him returning at a lower salary.

This formula that you talk about basically turns the Os in to a feeder teams for the Big Boys. The system sucks and as baseball fans we don't gave to like the situation.

I was listening to Scott G interview Brittany Ghiroli on The Fan yesterday. She mentioned the lack luster offseason. She mentioned as I have several times on this board about the team using the resources that weren't used to resign Cruz and Markakis. She basically wants to know where the big moves are.

Duquette said that the Orioles had the resources to sign both players and that they wanted to resign them. He never said that he could've resigned them and as a result would've had to make significant subtractions elsewhere to cover the money.

I agree with Rene88 when he said sometimes you have to pay. we don't keep our own guys and we don't sign or trade for anybody that's proved that they can be a star. So essentially the new Orioles way is the equivalent to panning for gold.

[wildcard]

I honestly can't believe I'm going to take the bait here. I don't care if the Orioles make 1 move in the off season or 30. My problem is the value of the actual move that's being made. The player doesn't have to cost 20 million per season in order to be happy.

Travis Snider was a nice pick up considering what we've given up so far to get him. But here's the thing...in order for Snider to be a big win he has to take the next step from where he is now which is a pedestrian MLB player.

If he doesn't you have him for 2 seasons of mediocrity and traded away 2 players from your system that may or may not develop.

If he does become the offensive force that we all hope he leaves because Duquette can't afford to keep him and you potentially pick up a comp pick that needs years to develop.

I think you mentioned in a previous post that Duquette didn't want multi year contracts with 30 something guys. I don't believe that he didn't want to bring Nick and Cruz back. In fact they didn't even offer arbitration to Markakis that would've at least returned a comp pick because they thought they had a better chance of him returning at a lower salary.

This formula that you talk about basically turns the Os in to a feeder teams for the Big Boys. The system sucks and as baseball fans we don't gave to like the situation.

I was listening to Scott G interview Brittany Ghiroli on The Fan yesterday. She mentioned the lack luster offseason. She mentioned as I have several times on this board about the team using the resources that weren't used to resign Cruz and Markakis. She basically wants to know where the big moves are.

Duquette said that the Orioles had the resources to sign both players and that they wanted to resign them. He never said that he could've resigned them and as a result would've had to make significant subtractions elsewhere to cover the money.

I agree with Rene88 when he said sometimes you have to pay. we don't keep our own guys and we don't sign or trade for anybody that's proved that they can be a star. So essentially the new Orioles way is the equivalent to panning for gold.

After the neck injury was evaluated I don't think the O's had interest in signing Nick to a multi year contract. They did talk to Nelson about a 3 year deal but I think Dan knew there was a 4 year deal out there for Nelson.

Brit is getting emotion over not signing players that are not in Dan's philosophy. That is exactly what Dan will not do. Get emotional.

Yes, Dan didn't say that he would have to trade Chris Davis to fit Nick and Nelson into the budget. But Dan would never say that in public. That doesn't mean its not true.

Dan will and did sign a 30 something player to a long term contract --- Hardy. But the evaluation was that Hardy is key to the O's winning because of his defense. And the evaluation apparently showed that they think Hardy will continue to play above average defense for the next three years. Apparently the same value was not there for Nick and Nelson over their contract terms in DD opinion. But I think Dan agrees that something you have to pay. Hardy was that somethings.

Oh, by the way, I am not baiting you. I am just trying to state what I think DD's philosophy is. Anyone that wants to discuss that is a good thing IMO.

[Roll Tide]

After the neck injury was evaluated I don't think the O's had interest in signing Nick to a multi year contract. They did talk to Nelson about a 3 year deal but I think Dan knew there was a 4 year deal out there for Nelson.

Brit is getting emotion over not signing players that are not in Dan's philosophy. That is exactly what Dan will not do. Get emotional.

Yes, Dan didn't say that he would have to trade Chris Davis to fit Nick and Nelson into the budget. But Dan would never say that in public. That doesn't mean its not true.

Dan will and did sign a 30 something player to a long term contract --- Hardy. But the evaluation was that Hardy is key to the O's winning because of his defense. And the evaluation apparently showed that they think Hardy will continue to play above average defense for the next three years. Apparently the same value was not there for Nick and Nelson over their contract terms in DD opinion. But I think Dan agrees that something you have to pay. Hardy was that somethings.

Oh, by the way, I am not baiting you. I am just trying to state what I think DD's philosophy is. Anyone that wants to discuss that is a good thing IMO.

Well he could have easily said that the team would need to trim payroll in order to resign those guys. He certainly shouldn't have had to name a specific player. Also Dan has signed and traded for high ticket players in the past. He at least considered the idea of trading for Kemp, Upton, and Either.

@ Britt ...the guys interviewing her agreed. Honestly if that's the philosophy and Duquette is here next offseason they might as well go onto full rebuild mode. Because the Orioles font have TD position prospects in the system to replace the guys that will be leaving via free agency.

[Bahama O's Fan]

I think Dan knows what type of players he wants. He was saddled with certain ones when he came on the job. He decided (with Buck) who were the most irreplacable. I think he wants value, above and beyond anything else. If Hunter or Britton or someone else can produce like JJ for less, then get rid of JJ. If someone else can replicate Markakis' production for a fraction of the cost, then this is what he'll do. Would he have loved to have Cruz's production for two more years-most definitely, but not four more at that price. I think he also looked at this year's free agents and next years and decided that next year's group is more important. But that's what I think.

[wildcard]

Well he could have easily said that the team would need to trim payroll in order to resign those guys. He certainly shouldn't have had to name a specific player. Also Dan has signed and traded for high ticket players in the past. He at least considered the idea of trading for Kemp, Upton, and Either.

@ Britt ...the guys interviewing her agreed. Honestly if that's the philosophy and Duquette is here next offseason they might as well go onto full rebuild mode. Because the Orioles font have TD position prospects in the system to replace the guys that will be leaving via free agency.

Next off season is a whole different animal. The O's could have 50m to spend to replace players. That could mean signing FAs or making a big trade that takes on salary. Its a way different situation from this off season.

[Redskins Rick]

LOL,

Can we get this current season played out, before we lose too much sleep over what might or might not happen off-season of 2016?