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Would you be willing to trade Schoop and Givens for a good starting pitcher?

Frobby

By Frobby
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Scrat1 Hangout Grand Counsel

Scrat1

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Losing Schoop and Givens wouldn't weaken the team as much as a true TOR would strengthen it.

That might be true, this year. It's definitely not true 2018 (or 2017, depending on how much of a rental this guy is) and beyond. And that's assuming we could get a "true TOR" for Schoop and Givens, which is probably not the case. Maybe a solid 2/3 guy.

We need to stop leveraging the future for marginal present upgrades. Increasing our odds of winning by 2-3 percentage points is not worth the cost.

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25 Nuggets Hangout Grand Counsel

25 Nuggets

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Losing Schoop and Givens wouldn't weaken the team as much as a true TOR would strengthen it.

Would they even land a true TOR? And who are the true TOR pitchers? So many have disappointed this season. That might be the first question -- who are the guys on losing teams that can front this rotation?

The first guy that comes to mind is Julio Teheran for Atlanta. He is 2-6 with a 2.85 ERA. He could really use a better team around him.

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Nevermore All-Star

Nevermore

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Absolutely not. Unless it's for Clayton Kershaw or Madison Bumgarner. Even then, I don't think I would do it. The team would be mortgaging whatever future they have. Trading Schoop would ruin the current team chemistry, especially with Manny. Givens is too good to trade away.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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That might be true, this year. It's definitely not true 2018 (or 2017, depending on how much of a rental this guy is) and beyond. And that's assuming we could get a "true TOR" for Schoop and Givens, which is probably not the case. Maybe a solid 2/3 guy.

We need to stop leveraging the future for marginal present upgrades.

What do you consider Teheran to be? I'd put him in the "solid 2/3" category, though to me, closer to a 2 than a 3. He's also under contract through 2020, whereas Schoop is only under control until 2019. So I don't see that particular trade as "leveraging the future" so much. (I realize my OP was not limited to Teheran.)

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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I love Schoop but keeping him over a Kershaw or Bumarner is ridiculous. TB wanted Soler or Baiz for Cobb. Are either of those two that much more valuable than Schoop and Givens? Really people complain because we haven't addressed SP, then when having to face the fact that you have give up something to get what you need, they say no, no, we like our guys. Well is the only way to improve the SP to spend 35 M + AAV on some 30 something FA?

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TINSTAAPP Perennial All-Star

TINSTAAPP

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Absolutely not. Unless it's for Clayton Kershaw or Madison Bumgarner. Even then, I don't think I would do it. The team would be mortgaging whatever future they have. Trading Schoop would ruin the current team chemistry, especially with Manny. Givens is too good to trade away.

Schoop has a career walk rate of 3.0%. That's the fifth worst walk rate among all post-World War II position players. I don't think giving Schoop up would be "mortgaging the future". He's far from irreplaceable.

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Scrat1 Hangout Grand Counsel

Scrat1

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What do you consider Teheran to be? I'd put him in the "solid 2/3" category, though to me, closer to a 2 than a 3. He's also under contract through 2020, whereas Schoop is only under control until 2019. So I don't see that particular trade as "leveraging the future" so much. (I realize my OP was not limited to Teheran.)

I probably still wouldn't make this trade, but even if Baltimore would, why would Atlanta? Strikes me more as a lateral move, where both teams would be giving up their homegrown players.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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I probably still wouldn't make this trade, but even if Baltimore would, why would Atlanta? Strikes me more as a lateral move, where both teams would be giving up their homegrown players.

All I know is that MLBTR put Teheran on its list of top 10 players most likely to be traded. They've already stacked their farm pretty well, so I thought they might prefer guys who have some major league experience but remain under control for several years. They're awful at 2B (.643 OPS) and they lack power. Their starting pitching is better than their bullpen (13th/15 in the NL in bullpen ERA).

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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

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As I try to think about who we could trade to get a good starting pitcher (not some mediocre guy), it's clear we can't do it just by trading prospects. We just don't have any who are good enough to bring that kind of return. So, I've been thinking about what major leaguers we have who are good players, yet expendable.

No. 1 on my list is Jonathan Schoop. I really like him, and especially enjoy his interaction with Manny Machado. But I think at the end of the day he has some limits as a player. If we moved Flaherty to 2B to replace him, we'd lose a little on defense, but not too much. On offense, we'd lose quite a bit, but due to Schoop's low OBP tendencies, not an irreparable amount.

No. 2 on my list is Mychal Givens. Any team could use a guy like that in their bullopen, but with Britton, O'Day and Brach, he's a bit of a luxury item for us. And, he does have some issues vs. LHP.

Now obviously, I wouldn't give up a good 2B with 3 more years of team control remaining after this one, and a good relief pitcher with 5 more years of team control remaining, for a rental or even a guy with one more year of control. It would have to be a very good starting pitcher who is under control through 2018 or longer. Honestly, I haven't thought much about who might fit the bill. Is there a match out there? Julio Teheran is said to be available -- would that work, if we threw a decent prospect into the mix with Schoop and Givens?

One other thing -- do we dare trade Schoop if Manny hasn't signed a long-term deal and we are still hoping to sign him?

Nope no way.

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mskrulz Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

mskrulz

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No I wouldn't. Schoop is a really good young player and an excellent Second baseman, and he's Manny's best friend. Givens is slowly turning into one of the best, and cheapest, relievers around. Can't do it.

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