Buck Stuff

[Tx Oriole]

So ESPN has a poll that includes Buck not bringing Britton in as worst managerial decision ever. You can vote too:

http://www.espn.com/sportsnation/story/_/id/17719938/did-buck-showalter-make-all-mistake

Screw ESPN. They are not worth a damn. Britton would not have made much difference. Offense didnt show up. IMO

[O's84]

Screw ESPN. They are not worth a damn. Britton would not have made much difference. Offense didnt show up. IMO

You don't know if Britton would be a difference or not but that's still 6 more at bats he'd likely get you. As bad as the team looked they can hit one out at any spot in the order. Not saying the whole loss is on Buck, but it was an awful decision. But alas, this has already been discussed ad naseum at this point so I will digress.

[brianod]

There are so many people paid to talk about sports that don't know anything its nauseous. Our offense was abysmal against average pitching. That's what lost the game. If Zach pitched the 11th and 12th, we would have lost in 13. If we scored in the 12th in that scenario, who would have closed?

[ORIOLE33]

If we scored in the 12th in that scenario, who would have closed?

You cross that bridge when you get to it.

[Sessh]

Screw ESPN. They are not worth a damn. Britton would not have made much difference. Offense didnt show up. IMO

You're kidding, right? I can't believe so many of you are trying to make this a trivial decision in the game. It was MAJOR. Two scoreless innings is six more outs to square one up or get something going. Sure, it may not have made a difference, but to just assume it wouldn't have and have that be your explanation why it wouldn't have mattered is absurd. Who knows what two more innings could have done? To not use the best pitcher in the game in an 11th inning MUST WIN game is as bad as it gets. He did a similar thing with the Yankees in 1995. He is a stubborn old man that cost his team two extra innings to try and score a run and win the game because he's more concerned about getting a save for Britton before they even scored a run. If that is all Buck was thinking in that game situation, then he is a fool. You get the win any way you can. The save is trivial and we had enough arms out there to finish the game if we scored a run and Britton was done. It's the postseason. You do whatever you have to do to win the game and that includes using your best pitcher in extra innings over someone like Jimenez of all people. Anyone would have been better than him in that situation. To not bring him in after Jimenez put two on is even WORSE. Just terrible managing. Terrible.

[MagicBird]

This has gotten beyond ridiculous and its less than 24 hrs . . . . . . .

[BMann]

Pete Carroll's stunningly stupid decision to throw the ball at the end of the Super Bowl rather than give it to Lynch is way ahead of all other coaching blunders, as well it should be. Even had the O's won last night, they were many miles from a championship. Carroll had one right in his hands, and threw it away, literally. That was truly a blunder for the ages.

[Gofannon]

To be clear, this isn't whether it's the worst managerial decision ever. It's one of 6 options. It is also ignoring anything that happened before 1980, which is conveniently when ESPN started, which means that there were no sports before 1980.

[O's are Legends]

Screw ESPN. They are not worth a damn. Britton would not have made much difference. Offense didnt show up. IMO

Respectfully disagree, you never know what could have happened as much as the offense was asleep.

But one thing he didn't do often this season was enter tie games on the road. He did that just once this season -- on July 31, when he pitched the ninth and 10th innings in Toronto to help the Orioles salvage a win at the end of a three-game series.

Britton posted two zeros, and the Orioles eventually won, 6-2, in 12 innings.

?One of the outings I was probably the most proud of was in Toronto," Britton said. "I think I did two innings in that extra-inning game that we had there that day. We got beat twice there, and it kind of was a big win for us, taking one of those games. It wasn?t even a save, it was more just an outing where getting two innings against that team right there, and maybe three or four innings later, we ended up winning. It was one of the ones I was most proud of.?

It was also a 2-2 game, and the O's ended up scoring 4 in the 12th. Story was from the Sun, sorry can't post the link from phone.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Um yeah, while this was a blunder it is not a top 6 coaching blunder of all time (or since 1980). Grady Little leaving in Pedro was way worse because it cost the Red Sox the World Series. At best the Orioles make the divisional round or even lose against the Blue Jays. Was the offense ever going to score last night?

[Tony-OH]

Pete Carroll's stunningly stupid decision to throw the ball at the end of the Super Bowl rather than give it to Lynch is way ahead of all other coaching blunders, as well it should be. Even had the O's won last night, they were many miles from a championship. Carroll had one right in his hands, and threw it away, literally. That was truly a blunder for the ages.

This, and it's not even close!

[O's84]

Pete Carroll's stunningly stupid decision to throw the ball at the end of the Super Bowl rather than give it to Lynch is way ahead of all other coaching blunders, as well it should be. Even had the O's won last night, they were many miles from a championship. Carroll had one right in his hands, and threw it away, literally. That was truly a blunder for the ages.

As horrible as this was (and it was horrible!), can you imagine the OH reaction if Buck had done this in game 7 of the WS. I think the site's server would crash as well as every cup and bottle in every bar in Baltimore!

[NashLumber]

Would being Seattle make it easier on us? Or the Diamondbacks? Maybe the Marlins would be easier on us fans. Man, how soon we get spoiled by success. As great as Earl was, he lost World Series in 1969, 1971, 1979 to lesser teams in each instance. The game is hard.

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I remember all of those. I was 7 in '69 and that series was my first. Been with them through it all. Preaching to the choir.

[orioleslist]

Best article I've read on the matter so far is the five-thirty-eight piece. On my phone, so can't link it, but would love to have the author and Buck sit around a table and discuss it.

Also a good argument against those who think post-Moneyball baseball is all stats and sabermetrics--in certain aspects of the game old non-scientific conventional wisdom is still the norm. Buck proved that last night.

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[DrungoHazewood]

So ESPN has a poll that includes Buck not bringing Britton in as worst managerial decision ever. You can vote too:

http://www.espn.com/sportsnation/story/_/id/17719938/did-buck-showalter-make-all-mistake

My immediate thought was "To ESPN the beginning of time is 1979, so I'll guess the options are all from then to the present." And whatta you know, the oldest option in the poll is 1980. Thanks for being predictably narrow-minded ESPN! No, MLB didn't exist for 108 years before you, not at all.

Any number of dozens of pre-ESPN decisions could make this list. Like Gene Mauch starting Jim Bunning on two days rest three times in late September 1964. Bunning allowed 19 runs in 10.1 innings in those starts as the Phillies squandered a 6.5-game lead with 12 games left.

And, of course they focus on single point events over long-term poor decisions. Like... one of hundreds of examples... Lou Piniella using Norm Charlton as his primary closer throughout 1997 despite a 7.27 ERA in 71 games. Or LaRussa continuing to pitch Kyle Lhose down the stretch in 2010, when they finished with 86 wins, out of the playoffs, had been in first place in August, and he gave up 36 runs in his last 44 innings. Or Dusty letting Mark Prior throw 757 pitches in six September 2002 starts. There are hundreds upon hundreds of examples like this.