New details emerging about the massive fail at the Trade Deadline

[Cumberbundy]

4 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

The medicals stopped the Houston deal. Once they did and knowing the Astros were not parting with their top tier guys the deal was down the drain. 

Of course a conspiracy theorist would say that Dan deliberately picked players with a medical history he knew Angelos would not pass because he wanted Britton to stay all along.  

There were reports that 3 deals were accepted, were they various versions of a Britton/Houston trade or was that not accurate? 

That's a deep conspiracy I don't envy Dans position. No matter what criticisms I have of certain deals, he's strapped with limitations his competitors are not and we've won a lot of games...and have some very exciting young talent in the system. 

We need to start giving some love to our pitching coaches, they've been roasted but the staff has been brilliant recently. 2S FBs from Bundy & Gausman have been really effective. It would be cool to have a show that went into what guys were working on and get to watch for those things from start to start. Obviously not doable but I love watching for the changes from start to start. Bundy ran a couple fastballs back that were things of beauty. 

[Tony-OH]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

What words will he be eating, exactly?    This is a pretty factual article and he doesn't really express an opinion on whether the O's should have traded Britton, he just reports how the negotiations proceeded.    It's a good piece of journalism.     

Absolutely. I'm amazed at how many people think Rosenthal goes to bed every night thinking of pieces to make up to show the Orioles in a bad light. 

[webbrick2010]

So much over analysis

Bottom line is the O's never sell ML assets to collect prospects for the future

We will hold Britton till he is a FA

We will hold Manny until he is a FA

We will hold Schoop until he is a FA

We will hold Gausman until he is a FA

We will hold Bundy until he is a FA

We will hold Mancini until he is a FA

We already held Tillman until he is a FA

We will sign/extend at most two of the above, but never before they are in their already in their walk year

[billw76]

After reading that article it sounds to me like the Astros were trying to get Britton, Hand and Darvish for little to nothing. If the Rangers felt the offer for Darvish was non competitive, I can only imagine that DD and Angelos probably felt similar about the offer for Britton.

If you add in they didn't want to move 2-7 of their top prospects, and the possible medical rumors, I'm glad Dan stuck to his guns and didn't move Britton for basically pennies on the dollar. 

[eddie83]

12 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

There were reports that 3 deals were accepted, were they various versions of a Britton/Houston trade or was that not accurate? 

That's a deep conspiracy I don't envy Dans position. No matter what criticisms I have of certain deals, he's strapped with limitations his competitors are not and we've won a lot of games...and have some very exciting young talent in the system. 

We need to start giving some love to our pitching coaches, they've been roasted but the staff has been brilliant recently. 2S FBs from Bundy & Gausman have been really effective. It would be cool to have a show that went into what guys were working on and get to watch for those things from start to start. Obviously not doable but I love watching for the changes from start to start. Bundy ran a couple fastballs back that were things of beauty. 

I assume they were all for Britton but we don't know. It certainly sounds like Dan like the offers but Peter shut them down over medicals.

My conspiracy was more toungue in cheek   

 

[foxfield]

1 minute ago, webbrick2010 said:

So much over analysis

Bottom line is the O's never sell ML assets to collect prospects for the future

We will hold Britton till he is a FA

We will hold Manny until he is a FA

We will hold Schoop until he is a FA

We will hold Gausman until he is a FA

We will hold Bundy until he is a FA

We will hold Mancini until he is a FA

We already held Tillman until he is a FA

We will sign/extend at most two of the above, but never before they are in their already in their walk year

I wanted DD to move Britton and Brach and Castillo and Smith too!  But exactly which reported deal would YOU have pulled the trigger on?  Teams frequently over value their assets, we do it here all the time.  I would have been furious if DD had moved anything above that wasn't for a strong return and I would have been furious if he had moved Bundy or Gausman at all.  And your list doesn't even include Davis or Trumbo who would both be worth moving even if we ate money.  I think you simply complain to complain.  Regardless of whether it is warranted or not.

As to this thread, I think it is ironic.  Regarding the MASSIVE FAIL at the Deadline, this article in my opinion makes Houston look worse and the Orioles look better.  Still disappointed that we didn't make a move, but it sounds like we didn't get an offer worth accepting. 

Last question I have is regarding Roch's 3 rejected offers....but otherwise...lets go play!

 

[Tony-OH]

First off, great article by Rosenthal, really informative for a situation that usually calls for teams to keep things close hold. 

Nothing in here surprises me honestly. Sounds like a typical interaction with the Orioles. Duquette works the trades, gets what he thinks will work, send medicals to Dr. Angelos, Angelos doesn't like medicals, vetoes deal. 

Now there is another part in play, the fact that Beckam thanked Brady Anderson and Dan Duquette for bringing him here in that order. A theory could be worked that Anderson was working a back up plan if the Britton deal fell through, and that was the "going for it plan." This is significant because it shows Anderson operating as a co-GM or at least an assistant GM. Could this be grooming by Angelos? If Beckam does well, would this be enough for Angelos to feel Anderson could take over the GM at year's end?

The other thought is that it could mean that Anderson all along felt the Orioles should not sell, and he convinced ownership to let him build a "going for it trade." We all believe Anderson has Angelos' ear. Let me do some digging and see if i can get more to the story. 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

First off, great article by Rosenthal, really informative for a situation that usually calls for teams to keep things close hold. 

Nothing in here surprises me honestly. Sounds like a typical interaction with the Orioles. Duquette works the trades, gets what he thinks will work, send medicals to Dr. Angelos, Angelos doesn't like medicals, vetoes deal. 

Now there is another part in play, the fact that Beckam thanked Brady Anderson and Dan Duquette for bringing him here in that order. A theory could be worked that Anderson was working a back up plan if the Britton deal fell through, and that was the "going for it plan." This is significant because it shows Anderson operating as a co-GM or at least an assistant GM. Could this be grooming by Angelos? If Beckam does well, would this be enough for Angelos to feel Anderson could take over the GM at year's end?

The other thought is that it could mean that Anderson all along felt the Orioles should not sell, and he convinced ownership to let him build a "going for it trade." We all believe Anderson has Angelos' ear. Let me do some digging and see if i can get more to the story. 

Thanks.    There's a lot of guess work involved right now in interpreting Brady's role in all this.  

[Ruzious]

I also enjoyed the article.  And I'm thinking now that I jumped on Angelos' back prematurely, because Rosenthal doesn't indicate any interference by Angelos, and the O's turned back the Astros offer because of the medical information - which shows that the O's were doing their due diligence.  

[interloper]

I hear from some union guys that Angelos cancelled a big union event because it cost too much, and that he's pretty much a strange, old, and these days more confused man. 

[Grt 2BA FL Gator]

1 hour ago, webbrick2010 said:

So much over analysis

Bottom line is the O's never sell ML assets to collect prospects for the future

We will hold Britton till he is a FA

We will hold Manny until he is a FA

We will hold Schoop until he is a FA

We will hold Gausman until he is a FA

We will hold Bundy until he is a FA

We will hold Mancini until he is a FA

We already held Tillman until he is a FA

We will sign/extend at most two of the above, but never before they are in their already in their walk year

Bedard, Tejada, and Koji (Bedard especially) were pretty cornerstone trades of what you are talking about to help build the current core. We also traded George Sherrill for a top-ish prospect that failed (Josh Bell). 

 

 

[VeveJones007]

1 hour ago, Ruzious said:

I also enjoyed the article.  And I'm thinking now that I jumped on Angelos' back prematurely, because Rosenthal doesn't indicate any interference by Angelos, and the O's turned back the Astros offer because of the medical information - which shows that the O's were doing their due diligence.  

Even if Angelos said no to a potential deal, that does not necessarily indicate "interference." It's standard practice for the GM to present the owner with the best offer, provide a projection on what that offer would mean for 2017 and beyond, and then it's the owner's decision about whether or not he wants to sacrifice 2017 chances for future gains. 

Whether or not you would agree with Angelos in that scenario if fine, but it wouldn't indicate interference or meddling. The boss sets the strategic goals for an organization.

[NCRaven]

2 hours ago, Cumberbundy said:

But what was offered was accepted by Dan ? 

 

I think this is possibly an incorrect interpretation of what happened.  Just because Dan took the deal to Angelos doesn't mean he was endorsing it.  He owes it to tell ownership what was offered and give his opinion.  He very well could have taken the best available offer to Angelos and told him that in his opinion, it wasn't good enough.  So, Angelos may not have overidden Duquette.  He may have actually supported him.  We will probably never know.

[FlipTheBird]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

First off, great article by Rosenthal, really informative for a situation that usually calls for teams to keep things close hold. 

Nothing in here surprises me honestly. Sounds like a typical interaction with the Orioles. Duquette works the trades, gets what he thinks will work, send medicals to Dr. Angelos, Angelos doesn't like medicals, vetoes deal. 

Now there is another part in play, the fact that Beckam thanked Brady Anderson and Dan Duquette for bringing him here in that order. A theory could be worked that Anderson was working a back up plan if the Britton deal fell through, and that was the "going for it plan." This is significant because it shows Anderson operating as a co-GM or at least an assistant GM. Could this be grooming by Angelos? If Beckam does well, would this be enough for Angelos to feel Anderson could take over the GM at year's end?

The other thought is that it could mean that Anderson all along felt the Orioles should not sell, and he convinced ownership to let him build a "going for it trade." We all believe Anderson has Angelos' ear. Let me do some digging and see if i can get more to the story. 

An absolutely amazing piece by Rosenthal. He might know the precise minor leaguers involved, but probably couldn't have revealed them without burning a source. We'll never know, and that's fine.

The Dodgers were pretty upfront about saying they didn't want to deal Buehler or Verdugo. If the Astros similarly took all their best guys off the board... I'm GLAD we didn't deal Zach. We have the offseason and the trade deadline again next year to build a better package. If teams wanted him at discount prices, to hell with 'em.

[Aristotelian]

3 minutes ago, birdwatcher55 said:

I don't see much here that we didn't already know. No big revelation and a lot of the usual Rosentroll attacks on the Orioles. I'm sure the Orioles were holding out for the Buehler/ Tucker type packages that the Dodgers and Astros wouldn't offer in return for a dominant closer. The Cubs really had nothing to offer after dealing for Quintana. I would have gone dark too if I was Angelos/Duquette.

The only mistake, if any, was agreeing in principle to a lesser deal. I wonder if DD did that just to buy time to see if the Cubs or Dodgers would up there offers. Then found a medical issue with the help of the O's doctors when it came time to make the call.

I am sure the Astros were pissed but they still had a chance to increase their bid.