Duquette's trade history

[El_Duderino]

36 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't know, you might want to wait for the final bill to be tallied. 

Me, I really enjoyed 2012 and 2014.  2016 was alright but honestly my enjoyment was impacted by what I saw over the horizon.

You endured 14 straight losing season and then didn’t even realize you should be enjoying The good times? Oof

[atomic]

Just now, El_Duderino said:

You endured 14 straight losing season and then didn’t even realize you should be enjoying The good times? Oof

Can of Corn likes losing.  

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, El_Duderino said:

You endured 14 straight losing season and then didn’t even realize you should be enjoying The good times? Oof

I said at the time that the future crash was impeding my ability to fully enjoy the 2016 season.  Kinda like maxing out the credit cards while on vacation, some folks are fine with it, some aren't.

[LTO's]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I didn't think so.  Parra was ripe for regression.

Look I didn't think it was the type of move they needed to make but "buying" made sense. They won the division the year before and were two games above .500 at the time of the trade. Plus there were questions about Davies' frame and Parra put up 2.1 WAR with the Brewers that year which was better than what they had out there. What made NO sense to me was trading a live high school arm from an already rapidly depleting farm system for.....Tim Beckham. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, LTO's said:

Look I didn't think it was the type of move they needed to make but "buying" made sense. They won the division the year before and were two games above .500 at the time of the trade. Plus there were questions about Davies' frame and Parra put up 2.1 WAR with the Brewers that year which was better than what they had out there. What made NO sense to me was trading a live high school arm from an already rapidly depleting farm system for.....Tim Beckham. 

On the back of a clearly unsustainable BABIP.  This isn't hindsight, I stated the day of the trade that Parra might not even be an upgrade and he wasn't.

He was a guy that was declining on defense and lucky on offense.  Huge red flags all over the place. 

I'd also question if the team was a 3 win CO away from the playoffs.

[atomic]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I said at the time that the future crash was impeding my ability to fully enjoy the 2016 season.  Kinda like maxing out the credit cards while on vacation, some folks are fine with it, some aren't.

You said it after 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015 season as well.

[atomic]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

On the back of a clearly unsustainable BABIP.  This isn't hindsight, I stated the day of the trade that Parra might not even be an upgrade and he wasn't.

He was a guy that was declining on defense and lucky on offense.  Huge red flags all over the place. 

I'd also question if the team was a 3 win CO away from the playoffs.

I think just  about everyone on here was against Parra trade when it happened.

[LTO's]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

On the back of a clearly unsustainable BABIP.  This isn't hindsight, I stated the day of the trade that Parra might not even be an upgrade and he wasn't.

He was a guy that was declining on defense and lucky on offense.  Huge red flags all over the place. 

I'd also question if the team was a 3 win CO away from the playoffs.

That's fine. I would have been right there with you. My point was trading away any asset at the 2017 deadline was beyond comprehension. Zach Davies will probably have a better career than Myers and Beckham provided more value as an Oriole than Parra. It's just more of the principle of trading a relatively high draft pick from a terrible farm system that was withering away for a below average player that cost $4 million.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, LTO's said:

That's fine. I would have been right there with you. My point was trading away any asset at the 2017 deadline was beyond comprehension. Zach Davies will probably have a better career than Myers and Beckham provided more value as an Oriole than Parra. It's just more of the principle of trading a relatively high draft pick from a terrible farm system that was withering away for a below average player that cost $4 million.

I think you mean 2015, not 2017.    And while I wouldn’t necessarily have advocated trading away major league talent then, it’s certainly not inconceivable.    The team wasn’t having a particularly good year.    They were only a few games back of the second wild card, but there were several teams ahead of them, and they weren’t playing well.   

The next year, the Yankees were in a similar position to the 2015 Orioles, bit the bullet and traded Chapman, Miller, and Beltran and got a king’s ransom in return.   They set themselves up nicely.    

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

He achieved some things, but he also left the organization in significantly worse condition than when he arrived.    That has to be factored in when judging him.    The constraints placed on him also have to be considered, though we will never know the full details and reality of that.   

 

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

When Dan arrived  the team had not won in 14 years.  Pretty hard to be worse than that.   And when he left the O's had Means, Ridriguez, DL Hall, Mountcastle, Mancini,  Sisco, Nunez,  Givens, Bundy, Hays, Diaz, Baumann, Rom, Sedlock,  Akin, Lowther , McKenna, Wells, Zimmerman, Harvey , Tate, Knight,  Kremer, Hanifee, McCoy, Stewart, Adam Hall, Grenier, Pop.

So maybe you should re-evaluate what it was like when Dan came and went.

To the extent you are comparing the state of talent in the organization in November 2011 to that in October 2018, I hope this is some kind of bad joke.    In both 2011 and 2018, our farm system was considered to be in the bottom third.    But our major league team was 20 wins better in 2011, and had the developing Chris Davis instead of the sub-replacement, $23 mm/yr version, Hardy under contract for 3/$21mm, Wieters coming into his prime under control for four years, Markakis under control for 3 years, Jones reaching his prime under control for 2 years, Tillman for 5 years, Britton for 6 years, Jim Johnson for 3 years, Arrieta for 5 years, O’Day for 3 years.    Duquette left virtually nothing at the major league level to build around.   

[FlipTheBird]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

I think you mean 2015, not 2017.    And while I wouldn’t necessarily have advocated trading away major league talent then, it’s certainly not inconceivable.    The team wasn’t having a particularly good year.    They were only a few games back of the second wild card, but there were several teams ahead of them, and they weren’t playing well.   

The next year, the Yankees were in a similar position to the 2015 Orioles, bit the bullet and traded Chapman, Miller, and Beltran and got a king’s ransom in return.   They set themselves up nicely.    

A key difference being, of course, that the Yankees knew they had the borderline unlimited assets available in order to A. Re-sign those players (Chapman), or B. Replace them with equitable players in free agency at the cost of just money - no player assets. 

Different scenarios. The Orioles had a window. Due to their financial situation, the Yankees don’t. Every year could be their year.

[Philip]

15 hours ago, Frobby said:

 

To the extent you are comparing the state of talent in the organization in November 2011 to that in October 2018, I hope this is some kind of bad joke.    In both 2011 and 2018, our farm system was considered to be in the bottom third.    But our major league team was 20 wins better in 2011, and had the developing Chris Davis instead of the sub-replacement, $23 mm/yr version, Hardy under contract for 3/$21mm, Wieters coming into his prime under control for four years, Markakis under control for 3 years, Jones reaching his prime under control for 2 years, Tillman for 5 years, Britton for 6 years, Jim Johnson for 3 years, Arrieta for 5 years, O’Day for 3 years.    Duquette left virtually nothing at the major league level to build around.   

You are exactly right. Dan chose “win now” above everything. Davies is still producing for the Brewers. Not even Arb eligible till next year. Career 7.6 WAR. And instead we preferred...others.

[wildcard]

20 hours ago, Frobby said:

 

To the extent you are comparing the state of talent in the organization in November 2011 to that in October 2018, I hope this is some kind of bad joke.    In both 2011 and 2018, our farm system was considered to be in the bottom third.    But our major league team was 20 wins better in 2011, and had the developing Chris Davis instead of the sub-replacement, $23 mm/yr version, Hardy under contract for 3/$21mm, Wieters coming into his prime under control for four years, Markakis under control for 3 years, Jones reaching his prime under control for 2 years, Tillman for 5 years, Britton for 6 years, Jim Johnson for 3 years, Arrieta for 5 years, O’Day for 3 years.    Duquette left virtually nothing at the major league level to build around.   

And yet MacPhail could not even get to .500 with them.   Duquette added the pitching that MacPhail could not and started the O's on a 5 year win streak.

And you have no idea how the current players in the farm system will turn out over the next 5 to 7 years.

I started this conversion because posters were not giving Dan credit for what he accomplished from 2012-2016.  He was not perfect but he gave us winning baseball again after 14 years of watching losing baseball.

[SteveA]

Just now, wildcard said:

And yet MacPhail could not even get to .500 with them.   Duquette added the pitching that MacPhail could not and started the O's on a 5 year win streak.

And you have no idea how the current players in the farm system will turn out over the next 5 to 7 years.

I started this conversion because posters were not giving Dan credit for what he accomplish from 2012-2016.  He was not perfect but he gave us winning baseball again after 14 years of watching losing baseball.

Don't disagree with any of that.   But to ignore the bad things he did while only mentioning the good is ridiculous.

Chris Davis is batting 1.000 on at bats where he gets a base hit.   So is Christian Yelich.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Don't disagree with any of that.   But to ignore the bad things he did while only mentioning the good is ridiculous.

Chris Davis is batting 1.000 on at bats where he gets a base hit.   So is Christian Yelich.

Are you honestly comparing Chris Davis to Christian Yelich?