Roch: "I don't expect Villar back with the O's in 2020."

[atomic]

3 minutes ago, Sessh said:

Wilkerson is a downgrade from Villar, though. His OPS is almost 100 points lower and it doesn't seem like Wilkerson is any improvement defensively either. Just seems like there's no real benefit to not bring him back if he can be brought back on a reasonable deal. People seem to want Martin gone as well. It just doesn't make any sense. It's not like we're brimming with infielders at Norfolk banging down the door. Villar is at least decent and is an everyday player. Wilkerson, to this point, has not shown the ability to be anything more than a bench player. I like Stevie, but it doesn't seem like he's that good.

Sign some guys for a couple million in the off -season.  Not rocket science here,

  

[HowAboutThat]

3 minutes ago, Sessh said:

Wilkerson is a downgrade from Villar, though. His OPS is almost 100 points lower and it doesn't seem like Wilkerson is any improvement defensively either. Just seems like there's no real benefit to not bring him back if he can be brought back on a reasonable deal. People seem to want Martin gone as well. It just doesn't make any sense. It's not like we're brimming with infielders at Norfolk banging down the door. Villar is at least decent and is an everyday player. Wilkerson, to this point, has not shown the ability to be anything more than a bench player. I like Stevie, but it doesn't seem like he's that good.

I agree completely on every count. But our priorities at the moment don’t involve spending money on bad players. No one wanted Villar. He’s careless, and no amount of coaching can fix dumb mistakes.

Wilk May not be “good” but he’s not sloppy. He’s fine as a placeholder. And remember there’s lots of waiver wire rummaging to happen twice now and next April. Villar won’t and shouldn’t be here but we have no idea who will be.

[Sessh]

2 minutes ago, atomic said:

Sign some guys for a couple million in the off -season.  Not rocket science here,

  

Villar could probably be had for that is my point. I'd just offer him such a contract before arbitration and if he doesn't sign, then move on. For that price, I don't know how much better can be had than Villar. I doubt he gets more than that as a FA anyway.

[Sessh]

2 minutes ago, Philip said:

I agree completely on every count. But our priorities at the moment don’t involve spending money on bad players. No one wanted Villar. He’s careless, and no amount of coaching can fix dumb mistakes.

Wilk May not be “good” but he’s not sloppy. He’s fine as a placeholder. And remember there’s lots of waiver wire rummaging to happen twice now and next April. Villar won’t and shouldn’t be here but we have no idea who will be.

Well, no one wanted Mancini either.. or Givens apparently. At least not bad enough to pay the price we wanted. Placeholders are "bad" players, aren't they? How long will it be before people here are calling for Wilkerson to be DFA'd after seeing him in the lineup every day at second base? Less than a month? I'd rather see Villar than Wilkerson if those are my choices. However, our choices are thin at the moment.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Sessh said:

Well, no one wanted Mancini either.. or Givens apparently. At least not bad enough to pay the price we wanted. Placeholders are "bad" players, aren't they? How long will it be before people here are calling for Wilkerson to be DFA'd after seeing him in the lineup every day at second base? Less than a month? I'd rather see Villar than Wilkerson if those are my choices. However, our choices are thin at the moment.

Was Elias quoted as saying Mancini and Givens were "very available"?

[mdbdotcom]

Alberto and Martin up the middle next year, unless they get a better SS.

[Sessh]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Was Elias quoted as saying Mancini and Givens were "very available"?

I don't think so, no. I can see why teams wouldn't want to give up anything significant for him, but a couple million for a year? Sure. The Cubs were in talks at one point for Villar, but went another direction. Obviously, something more than nothing was being asked for. What does "very available" even mean anyway? Free?

9 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

Alberto and Martin up the middle next year, unless they get a better SS.

I could live with Alberto there if that's how it ends up. I would still bring Villar back for at least one year at 2-3M if he'd do it. If not, that's fine. Maybe Elias will swing a deal for Mancini/Givens after the season that includes a nice IF prospect which makes it moot.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Sessh said:

I don't think so, no. I can see why teams wouldn't want to give up anything significant for him, but a couple million for a year? Sure. The Cubs were in talks at one point for Villar, but went another direction. Obviously, something more than nothing was being asked for. What does "very available" even mean anyway? Free?

I could live with Alberto there if that's how it ends up. I would still bring Villar back for at least one year at 2-3M if he'd do it. If not, that's fine. Maybe Elias will swing a deal for Mancini/Givens after the season that includes a nice IF prospect which makes it moot.

I take it as you take his salary and you can have him.

[Sessh]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I take it as you take his salary and you can have him.

At 4.8M, that's a little steep for him. That's certainly asking for above market value for him if that's the case, isn't it? If we were willing to eat half of that, it's more reasonable.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sessh said:

At 4.8M, that's a little steep for him. That's certainly asking for above market value for him if that's the case, isn't it? If we were willing to eat half of that, it's more reasonable.

I meant his remaining salary.

[Sessh]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I meant his remaining salary.

Oh, duh. So, about $1.66M then? I suppose we'll never know the details of what made that deal fall through with the Cubs. Villar for 1.6M seems more than reasonable, but maybe Elias wanted a low level prospect or something too. We were willing to include some cash to trade Cashner, so it shouldn't have been a big deal to pay some of Villar's remaining salary if we wanted him gone that badly. The deal wasn't good enough for whatever reason.

[Roll Tide]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

(paraphrased)

Roch was on Wall to Wall  Baseball today and made this comment.  We have talked about that some on the OH.   He said Villar was very available in July and he does not think the O's will want to pay his salary next year.  He did not say if the O's would non tender or trade him.

 

Thanks for the info but Roch is hardly in the know. As I said previously, he could have been moved for nothing if they weren't planning on hm returning.

[tntoriole]

I think they will tender him if he closes strong. 

[terphoopsfan]

1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

I think they will tender him if he closes strong. 

seeing it's possible he may end up around 2.5 WAR and yet I can't fathom why they'd just DFA him.

[BohKnowsBmore]

3 minutes ago, terphoopsfan said:

seeing it's possible he may end up around 2.5 WAR and yet I can't fathom why they'd just DFA him.

I'm with you on this one.  He appears to be a  respectable starting-caliber MLB MIF with speed.  I don't quite understand how there was no interest (we could easily have paid the remainder of the year as well if it would sweeten the prospect return at all).  Perhaps he will have a wider market in the offseason when more teams are preparing their rosters for 2020.  I know the team wants to shed payroll, but I would have to think some other team with designs of contending would be interested in a 2 WAR SS/2B/Util guy with PR ability for $5 or $6MM.