Nashville Orioles???

[interloper]

25 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

7, 500 views and 100s of posts would disagree with you. Not sure why you and couple others are so upset over this. This is what message boards are for, and there's a lot of great information that has been provided by many posters. Few of us believe this is going to happen, but it has turned into a great thread besides a few nonsensical posts questioning why we are talking about this and the poster who apparently hates John Angelos' wife and country music for whatever reason. Heck, Redskins Rick even re-emerged from his self imposed post retirement vacation to rejoin us in this thread.

The best thing about message boards is that you can see a topic you don't like, and scroll on by the one you do. May I recommend that way forward the next time you and a couple others decide to lecture us on what's Hangout worthy to discuss or not.

In fairness, most of the posts in this thread are about how there's no way this happens and people disagreeing with the article. 

 

[Going Underground]

4 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Daily cost of living certainly. not to mention that real estate prices are a half to a third of those in places like LA, San Francisco, NY, etc.  Middle Tennessee is also known for having excellent health care.  One other thing: this part of the country is conservative both socially and politically and that environment is increasingly showing  up as a draw for people of retirement age.  Moving here is not strange at all when you look at it from the perspective of someone older.

 

 

[weams]

 

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, Sammy Seagull said:

I understand a deal behind closed doors have the team being sold to a Nashville Investment group as soon as 2020/21. One team name being batted around is the "Nashville Notes". The group sounds like it has deep pockets and eager to make a deal. MLB in turn has promised to return a team to OPACY by 2025 by a two team expansion plan, with the second team going to Vegas. 

I have no idea whether there's any truth underlying this "understanding," but -- no surprise, I guess -- I nonetheless have some observations about it. It all sounds highly unlikely to me, but who knows?

First, there's no way this sale gets the approval of MLB's owners without an ironclad commitment on someone's part to build at least an adequate (and more likely a terrific) ballpark, and build it real fast. (Maybe the Sounds' 8,500-seat park can be expanded, but the history of those expansions is limited; such proposals have been pointed out far more often than they've been implemented.) Review of the proposed ballpark and its potential pitfalls is likely to be an exacting process after the debacles in Tampa, Montreal and Miami. The deal also would have to include revising or replacing the MASN arrangement, and making a deal for (a) the disappearance of Oriole games from MASN and (b) the cable rights for the soon-to-arrive Baltimore Orioles 2.0

Second, if there is "a deal behind closed doors," the parties involved -- including the Angeloses and their remaining minority investors, the prospective  buyers, stadium architects, MLB executives, the Nats, Nashville politicians, and an army of legal and financial advisors -- have done a remarkable job of keeping things secret  from everyone other than Sammy Seagull. 

Third, this deal would generate tremendous ill will among the Orioles' current fan base, which already has its problems from its inferior population and wealth in the AL East, and years of mostly-bad baseball, to which an expansion franchise would be likely to tack on at least a few more years of real bad, maybe even worse, teams. (To make that bad scenario even worse, it's very possible that the deal as described would move the Orioles to Nashville just as things on the field have started to improve.)

Under the deal as described, MLB's owners -- who eventually will share in the proceeds of  admission fees paid for the two expansion franchises -- would agree to lock up one of those new franchises for a crippled and angry Baltimore market, rather than have it go to the second highest bidder. If the Nashville group is so gung-ho and well-funded, and is sufficiently committed to do and spend what it takes to open up a new city to MLB -- and a city that hardly looks like a front-runner for a new franchise, at that -- wouldn't the owners want to be the potential sellers to that group as part of the coming competitive process for the expansion franchises?  In effect, this deal would replace a troubled Oriole franchise with a far weaker one, and award an expansion franchise to Nashville, and give MLB one franchise to auction off fully (plus a second auction limited to the new Baltimore franchise). I don't understand why the owners would agree to throw their own money away like that.

Fourth, as I said earlier, it would cost the Angeloses hundreds of millions dollars in income (not estate) taxes for them to finalize this sale before Peter's death and the step up in the tax basis that his widow and/or sons would receive. Maybe the Angeloses and the Nashville group have a good idea when that will happen, and the latter is willing either to wait or to compensate the Angeloses for the income tax hit.

Fifth, whatever bad things you want to say about the Angeloses -- and I know of only a few who stand ahead of me in denouncing how the arrogance, ignorance, selfishness, short-sightedness, childishness and cowardice of Peter Angelos have harmed the Orioles -- I doubt that either he or his sons wish to be remembered as the family that not only turned the once-proud Oriole franchise into MLB's laughingstock but then destroyed that franchise to further line their own pockets.

If there any truth to this, and I were an MLB owner, I would say something like, "Angeloses, the Orioles aren't going anywhere. If you can't succeed there, especially after the plum we threw your way through majority ownership of MASN, sell the team to someone who thinks he can.  Days and A's, we need to get the expansion process going. You have 18 [or 12 or 24] months to tell us whether you will relocate, and where. In 2021, we're going to begin a competitive bidding process for expansion to cities in North America (other than those to which the Rays or A's have committed). Nashville guys, we hope you'll participate in that bidding process, and as part of that you'll be explaining in detail your plans for making Nashville an MLB city." 

 

[weams]

1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

I do not believe the NFL doesn't have an antitrust exemption, like MLB does, and that's why we have seen more NFL teams move than MLB.

NFL gave up their antitrust exemption to avoid oversight. 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

In fairness, most of the posts in this thread are about how there's no way this happens and people disagreeing with the article. 

 

And your point?  Didn't post the article because I agree with it, I posted it for discussion, which is EXACTLY what happened. 

[Tony-OH]

27 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I have no idea whether there's any truth underlying this "understanding," but -- no surprise, I guess -- I nonetheless have some observations about it. It all sounds highly unlikely to me, but who knows?

First, there's no way this sale gets the approval of MLB's owners without an ironclad commitment on someone's part to build at least an adequate (and more likely a terrific) ballpark, and build it real fast. (Maybe the Sounds' 8,500-seat park can be expanded, but the history of those expansions is limited; such proposals have been pointed out far more often than they've been implemented.) Review of the proposed ballpark and its potential pitfalls is likely to be an exacting process after the debacles in Tampa, Montreal and Miami. The deal also would have to include revising or replacing the MASN arrangement, and making a deal for (a) the disappearance of Oriole games from MASN and (b) the cable rights for the soon-to-arrive Baltimore Orioles 2.0

Second, if there is "a deal behind closed doors," the parties involved -- including the Angeloses and their remaining minority investors, the prospective  buyers, stadium architects, MLB executives, the Nats, Nashville politicians, and an army of legal and financial advisors -- have done a remarkable job of keeping things secret  from everyone other than Sammy Seagull. 

Third, this deal would generate tremendous ill will among the Orioles' current fan base, which already has its problems from its inferior population and wealth in the AL East, and years of mostly-bad baseball, to which an expansion franchise would be likely to tack on at least a few more years of real bad, maybe even worse, teams. (To make that bad scenario even worse, it's very possible that the deal as described would move the Orioles to Nashville just as things on the field have started to improve.)

Under the deal as described, MLB's owners -- who eventually will share in the proceeds of  admission fees paid for the two expansion franchises -- would agree to lock up one of those new franchises for a crippled and angry Baltimore market, rather than have it go to the second highest bidder. If the Nashville group is so gung-ho and well-funded, and is sufficiently committed to do and spend what it takes to open up a new city to MLB -- and a city that hardly looks like a front-runner for a new franchise, at that -- wouldn't the owners want to be the potential sellers to that group as part of the coming competitive process for the expansion franchises?  In effect, this deal would replace a troubled Oriole franchise with a far weaker one, and award an expansion franchise to Nashville, and give MLB one franchise to auction off fully (plus a second auction limited to the new Baltimore franchise). I don't understand why the owners would agree to throw their own money away like that.

Fourth, as I said earlier, it would cost the Angeloses hundreds of millions dollars in income (not estate) taxes for them to finalize this sale before Peter's death and the step up in the tax basis that his widow and/or sons would receive. Maybe the Angeloses and the Nashville group have a good idea when that will happen, and the latter is willing either to wait or to compensate the Angeloses for the income tax hit.

Fifth, whatever bad things you want to say about the Angeloses -- and I know of only a few who stand ahead of me in denouncing how the arrogance, ignorance, selfishness, short-sightedness, childishness and cowardice of Peter Angelos have harmed the Orioles -- I doubt that either he or his sons wish to be remembered as the family that not only turned the once-proud Oriole franchise into MLB's laughingstock but then destroyed that franchise to further line their own pockets.

If there any truth to this, and I were an MLB owner, I would say something like, "Angeloses, the Orioles aren't going anywhere. If you can't succeed there, especially after the plum we threw your way through majority ownership of MASN, sell the team to someone who thinks he can.  Days and A's, we need to get the expansion process going. You have 18 [or 12 or 24] months to tell us whether you will relocate, and where. In 2021, we're going to begin a competitive bidding process for expansion to cities in North America (other than those to which the Rays or A's have committed). Nashville guys, we hope you'll participate in that bidding process, and as part of that you'll be explaining in detail your plans for making Nashville an MLB city." 

 

Excellent well thought out and written post. This is Hangout quality discussion at its best!

[weams]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Excellent well thought out and written post. This is Hangout quality discussion at its best!

^^^

66 is a sleeper brainiac. 

[GoldGlove21]

On 8/12/2019 at 1:34 AM, TINSTAAPP said:

The city of Nashville will also have to publically finance a new stadium and I have a hard time seeing that happening. And if Nashville does use public funds to build a new stadium, why not go after the Rays or A's instead of the Orioles? Those two teams have far superior front offices and have had a lot more success over the past 10-15 years than the Orioles have. I'm sure Sternberg would be more than happy to move the Rays to Nashville if they gave him a new stadium. 

I don't understand this at all. The Orioles have the FAR superior history. You are just looking at recent history, but that doesn't tell the entire story. MLB likely prefers the Orioles to move because it solves the MASN dispute. 

[weams]

https://www.moderndrummer.com/article/september-2019-nelson-drum-shop/

[dedwretched]

On 8/12/2019 at 6:12 AM, weams said:

Without a lease? No. I've been a poster who has warned about 2021 for a long while. I was a Portland speculator myself. But I'd go see them in Nashville. Or Asheville. 

Man, that would be great to get the O's here in Portland, but Portland really isn't a baseball town. The Blazers and Timbers may be big draws, but Beavers games weren't well attended. They ended up bouncing around to Reno and then some San Diego suburb.

[NashLumber]

On 8/12/2019 at 3:25 PM, Il BuonO said:

Austin-Round Rock metroplex or Austin metro is 2.168 mil. Fastest growing city in the US. Your number is likely city limits. 

I’d love to see a pro team here, but any sport has to compete with UT. And still as hot here at times as Dallas or Houston. Not sure the citizens have the desire for the cost of a domed stadium.

Was looking at some similar comparisons.

https://mlbraleigh.com/the-data/

There’s a MLB in Raleigh movement and the data page shows Austin #1 and Raleigh- Durham #2 as fastest growing. And they use the MSA numbers (Metropolitan Statistical Area). As far as expansion, the Raleigh group makes the arguments that the Raleigh MSA area is:

- larger than both Milwaukee’s and Kansas City’s

- just behind Pittsburgh and Cincinnati 

- largest TV market in US without a locally or regionally broadcasted  team (#25th market overall)

- #1 richest area in continental US without an MLB team within 100 miles

- Duke, NC State and UNC are all part of the metropolitan area

They make several other supporting arguments and show mockups of four locations in the downtown area (and all within a mile of the new train station and under construction city park).

https://mlbraleigh.com/#stadiums

I’d love for an expansion team (or Oakland or Tampa Bay relocate) here in my area, but I’m not counting any chickens. I do know that when I go to downtown Raleigh, it’s as bustling as any place I go with millennials and Gen-Xers all bustling (with plenty of expendable income) in an out of the entertainment centers, restaurants, music venues and bars. There are condos and apartments under construction downtown every time I go down there. Red Hat is located there, State government and several banks, advertising and energy corporations. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dedwretched]

12 minutes ago, dedwretched said:

Man, that would be great to get the O's here in Portland, but Portland really isn't a baseball town. The Blazers and Timbers may be big draws, but Beavers games weren't well attended. They ended up bouncing around to Reno and then some San Diego suburb.

I was unable to change what I typed. I wanted to change it to the city of Portland also tried to find a place to build a new stadium, but all of the locations fell through. The owner sold the team and they've bounced around from Lake Elsinore to Tucson to El Paso.

[weams]

1 hour ago, dmvsports410 said:

Winning cures a lot. Rob Long made some good points on the matter. Nashville is Braves, Reds and another teams territory. Think those owners would approve of the move? It would take 75 percent of the owners approval to move the team. Nashville, Portland don't have the sports history like Baltimore.

"Another name not mentioned was Bill Miller, the famed investor and former chief investment officer for Legg Mason who is also a passionate Orioles fan. He said in an email to the Business Journal he would "definitely be interested in taking a look" if the Angelos family decided to sell the Orioles. He noted the $1.2 billion sale of the Miami Marlins in 2017 and said the Orioles are in a "better market with more loyal fans" than the Marlins, who regularly rank near the bottom of Major League Baseball for attendance."

https://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2019/08/12/an-orioles-move-to-nashville-has-been-rooted-for.html

One guy who would be interested in buying the O's mentioned he would take a look but the Os have to workout the masn issue. Forgot who though. 

 

The Rays and Athletics issue has to be worked out I would think before all this. Montreal would get a team imo before portland or nashville. 

So won't that be a kick when MLB send the Orioles to Montreal. Les Orioles de Montréal Québec

[atomic]

5 hours ago, 24fps said:Daily cost of living certainly. not to mention that real estate prices are a half to a third of those in places like LA, San Francisco, NY, etc.  Middle Tennessee is also known for having excellent health care.  One other thing: this part of the country is conservative both socially and politically and that environment is increasingly showing  up as a draw for people of retirement age.  Moving here is not strange at all when you look at it from the perspective of someone older.

Though I like Nashville the food is pretty much terrible there and life expectancy is not good there and the weather is terrible. Nice place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there.  I think the cheapness is the one factor going for it and better than living in other very cheap places.