Owners submit new economic plan to union : UPDATED

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

This time though they will actively decide to take baseball away from people when it's something that could help so many.
 

Yes.  Hard to argue with that.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Not to hijack this thread further...

Angelos did at one time have the drive to want to field a winner.  As you noted, he picked up Belle.  He spent on other FAs early in his tenure, but the Belle thing made him gun shy.  Both of these guys wanted to be the smartest guy in the room when it came to making trades and signing free agents.  They both made very poor decisions on hiring general managers and front office people and then proceeded to do what they wanted anyway.  

In regards to Davey, that sucked...but that team was getting long in the tooth, I've often thought that Davey getting fired was a blessing in disguise for him.  I don't think he could have won if he stayed.

The 1998 Orioles would have been better with Davey no doubt, but the Yankees were unstoppable that year and as you pointed out it was the end for that core of players. Maybe the 1998 Orioles make the wildcard, but they get eliminated before the World Series, and delay the eventual blowup between Angelos and Davey by maybe a year or two. And Cal, Raffy, Alomar, Brady, Mussina, etc. all get older or leave via free agency. 

[Tony-OH]

10 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

That'll scare everyone who was worried about the "Nashville Orioles" rumors when the OPACY lease expires, but yeah the Orioles should play elsewhere this season if there is MLB and the state won't open up OPACY. Also the city of Baltimore just banned all public gatherings through August this afternoon. 

I'll take a bizzarro baseball season over no season at all. 

Haha. I honestly don't even care anymore. If it allows the Orioles to get on TV, they can play wherever for their home games. my main point is that MLB should not let individual Governors and/or Mayors affect whether the league plays or not. If one won't allow them to play, just move the games elsewhere. Can't keep allowing these officials to keep us all hostage for whenever they personally feel it's safe. If it's not safe for the players to play in Camden because Larry Hogan says so, well move them to Frederick, or Sarasota or Nashville for all I care and play ball!

[Redskins Rick]

12 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Not to hijack this thread further...

Angelos did at one time have the drive to want to field a winner.  As you noted, he picked up Belle.  He spent on other FAs early in his tenure, but the Belle thing made him gun shy.  Both of these guys wanted to be the smartest guy in the room when it came to making trades and signing free agents.  They both made very poor decisions on hiring general managers and front office people and then proceeded to do what they wanted anyway.  

In regards to Davey, that sucked...but that team was getting long in the tooth, I've often thought that Davey getting fired was a blessing in disguise for him.  I don't think he could have won if he stayed.

But at least we kept the topic on Orioles and Baseball, mostly.

Seams like every day goes by, we arent hearing to much about when they expect baseball to start back up, just crickets chirping.

 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Redskins Rick said:

But at least we kept the topic on Orioles and Baseball, mostly.

Seams like every day goes by, we arent hearing to much about when they expect baseball to start back up, just crickets chirping.

 

Yeah, well, if it's gonna be first week of July as rumored they better get on it.  They've got a little over a month to get warmed up and ready to go.  If this drags into the first or second week of June, then the players are gonna whine that they don't have enough time to get ready for a season they already don't want to play.

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Haha. I honestly don't even care anymore. If it allows the Orioles to get on TV, they can play wherever for their home games. my main point is that MLB should not let individual Governors and/or Mayors affect whether the league plays or not. If one won't allow them to play, just move the games elsewhere. Can't keep allowing these officials to keep us all hostage for whenever they personally feel it's safe. If it's not safe for the players to play in Camden because Larry Hogan says so, well move them to Frederick, or Sarasota or Nashville for all I care and play ball!

Did you see China just had a round 2 this past week and went back into lockdown with 2 of their major cities.

Sorry not baseball related, except that we might see the same situation here, a lot faster than the original Oct/Nov flu season.

If this happens here, baseball and all sports is right off the table. IMO

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Yeah, well, if it's gonna be first week of July as rumored they better get on it.  They've got a little over a month to get warmed up and ready to go.  If this drags into the first or second week of June, then the players are gonna whine that they don't have enough time to get ready for a season they already don't want to play.

Toss the season aside, and let them play free games in August and Sept for the fans.

[atomic]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Haha. I honestly don't even care anymore. If it allows the Orioles to get on TV, they can play wherever for their home games. my main point is that MLB should not let individual Governors and/or Mayors affect whether the league plays or not. If one won't allow them to play, just move the games elsewhere. Can't keep allowing these officials to keep us all hostage for whenever they personally feel it's safe. If it's not safe for the players to play in Camden because Larry Hogan says so, well move them to Frederick, or Sarasota or Nashville for all I care and play ball!

The league needs to come up with a plan.  And so does the government.  

The government needs to say when they will open things up.  When will schools be allowed to start.  When will summer camps be open. When can 50 people congregate. When can I go into the mom and pop run stores.  When can I eat in a restaurant. 

  I just got a notice from a 2 week camp my daughter was supposed to attend in August that didn't even say sorry. They are not going to have camp as too dangerous and they aren't refunding my deposit of $250 as they don't have the money.  

The league needs to say what their plan is.  Where are they going to hold training.  No reason to hold training camp in Baltimore.  Go to Florida and Arizona where the teams are wanted.  Play there. I am not sure why playing in home cities is important.  Whatever the plan is name it.  Otherwise it isn't going to happen. 

[spiritof66]

20 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Good thoughts.

Angelos doesn't have the drive to want to field a winner. At least that is my perception.  He didnt want to play in the international market, and over pays for some, and under pays for others, and micromanages his people he hired. Thats my take on Angelos, I dont care if he is aloof. But, show a strong desired to win.

He over spent for Belle, yet wanted Mussina to come in and pitch for half of what he was worth. Peter ran Davey out of town after 2 ALCS visits. Incredible. Lets not even mention Jon Miller, the best damn announcer in the business.

Something Snyder has been trying to not do. Sadly, it left Bruce Allen to run around and rack up the wrong decisions.

Its been way too long for a championship team from either of them. 

I never thought that was the problem with the Orioles' owner. Rather, and I've posted this many times in many contexts over the years, the basic problem was his belief that he was smarter than the other owners and knew better than anyone else how to put together a winning team, and his inability to listen to, let alone learn from, those who disagreed with him, even if they had decades of baseball experience. In a word, or three words, arrogance and ignorance.  

Starting sometime around 2010, the owner's desire to win took on a desperation as he realized that he might never get to the World Series. That desperation led to a series of short-term decisions and an unwillingness to invest in anything (like international players and infrastructure, or scouting) that wouldn't provide a quick infusion of talent, not being open to trading valuable players even if they weren't going to be resigned, trading prospects, signing Davis, and adding Cobb and Cashner as if that might put the team in contention. That approach brought success for a few years, but predictably bled the team dry. I think the owner had, and maybe still has, a strong desire to win. It's just that he's an arrogant fool as far as baseball is concerned.

[Can_of_corn]

23 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I never thought that was the problem with the Orioles' owner. Rather, and I've posted this many times in many contexts over the years, the basic problem was his belief that he was smarter than the other owners and knew better than anyone else how to put together a winning team, and his inability to listen to, let alone learn from, those who disagreed with him, even if they had decades of baseball experience. In a word, or three words, arrogance and ignorance.  

Starting sometime around 2010, the owner's desire to win took on a desperation as he realized that he might never get to the World Series. That desperation led to a series of short-term decisions and an unwillingness to invest in anything (like international players and infrastructure, or scouting) that wouldn't provide a quick infusion of talent, not being open to trading valuable players even if they weren't going to be resigned, trading prospects, signing Davis, and adding Cobb and Cashner as if that might put the team in contention. That approach brought success for a few years, but predictably bled the team dry. I think the owner had, and maybe still has, a strong desire to win. It's just that he's an arrogant fool as far as baseball is concerned.

I think that after Belle Angelos looked at the overall trend of salaries and decided that he wasn't willing to spend with the big boys.  Unfortunately he wasn't cheap either which caused him to sign a parade of lackluster free agents in an attempt to field a competitive team.

[scOtt]

12 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

This time though they will actively decide to take baseball away from people when it's something that could help so many.

I just don't know. As much as I love baseball, I'm questioning a lot of things right now and trying to put things in the right priorities.

No worries though, I've already had someone ask me to name my price for this place so it will still be here regardless of my future decisions.

I trust that you've vetted this person... to not figuratively "move the site to Nashville." Or Indianapolis...

Keep it as is and is a baseball/Orioles fan. Running the site as it is and not just to make money.

 

AND that you'd still be here as a member, or Mod. Somehow still involved.

[scOtt]

12 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yeah, well, if it's gonna be first week of July as rumored they better get on it.  They've got a little over a month to get warmed up and ready to go.  If this drags into the first or second week of June, then the players are gonna whine that they don't have enough time to get ready for a season they already don't want to play.

Just from reading Roch and Melewski, it's sounds like our players and coaches at least are still well connected, as well as they can... And all the players are working to stay as close to game-ready as they can, in all their respective situations.

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

17 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Haha. I honestly don't even care anymore. If it allows the Orioles to get on TV, they can play wherever for their home games. my main point is that MLB should not let individual Governors and/or Mayors affect whether the league plays or not. If one won't allow them to play, just move the games elsewhere. Can't keep allowing these officials to keep us all hostage for whenever they personally feel it's safe. If it's not safe for the players to play in Camden because Larry Hogan says so, well move them to Frederick, or Sarasota or Nashville for all I care and play ball!

 

Governor Hogan has straight up said that he hopes for professional sports to start in Maryland soon. Mayor Jack Young said that his ban on events is for the Office of Promotion and the Arts only - not professional sports leagues. There appears to be absolutely no opposition to the O's playing in Camden Yards once MLB is ready.

Regardless, Governors and mayors are responsible for the public health of their citizens. They are not making personal decisions - both Governor Hogan and Mayor Young have repeatedly said they are making decisions based on facts, science, and experts. Implying the opposite is disingenuous.

I'd like to be watching baseball right now as much as anyone - but COVID-19 is very very serious threat, whether you want to admit it or not. The Hangout prides itself on intelligent, analytical comment and opinions on baseball. Why is everyone doing the exact opposite and getting political about COVID-19? I really encourage people to do a basic Google search before they start posting nonsense that quite frankly is dangerous.

[Tony-OH]

53 minutes ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

 

Governor Hogan has straight up said that he hopes for professional sports to start in Maryland soon. Mayor Jack Young said that his ban on events is for the Office of Promotion and the Arts only - not professional sports leagues. There appears to be absolutely no opposition to the O's playing in Camden Yards once MLB is ready.

Regardless, Governors and mayors are responsible for the public health of their citizens. They are not making personal decisions - both Governor Hogan and Mayor Young have repeatedly said they are making decisions based on facts, science, and experts. Implying the opposite is disingenuous.

I'd like to be watching baseball right now as much as anyone - but COVID-19 is very very serious threat, whether you want to admit it or not. The Hangout prides itself on intelligent, analytical comment and opinions on baseball. Why is everyone doing the exact opposite and getting political about COVID-19? I really encourage people to do a basic Google search before they start posting nonsense that quite frankly is dangerous.

We are not getting political at all. All I said was IF individual Governors and Mayors want to stop baseball from happening in their stadiums that it should not deter MLB from starting up the season. There are alternatives and they should be used in order to get the season started.

I won't address your opinion on why Hogan and Young are making the decision they are making because that does then become political.  

Saying that, Hogan did say if players played in OPACY that some would get the virus and Young just shut his city down through the summer. If they are saying something different now, good, I hope they come to their senses or at least bend to the strong pressure being put upon them from a large part of the population.

As for baseball, if there are going to be no fans at the games, then I don't care where the Orioles home games are played. As a member of the media, I imagine our access would be very limited as well so it wouldn't matter whether the games were in Camden Yards or Nashville in my opinion. 

[atomic]

6 minutes ago, weams said:

Or better yet, keep the politics out of this. Despite my requests one or two people keep trying to stir it back up here. As if they were trying to start a fight. 

 

1 hour ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

 

Regardless, Governors and mayors are responsible for the public health of their citizens. They are not making personal decisions - both Governor Hogan and Mayor Young have repeatedly said they are making decisions based on facts, science, and experts. Implying the opposite is disingenuous.

 

Everyone makes decisions base on personal feelings, personal health,  and their personal life.   Just because anyone thinks what they are doing is right doesn't mean it is. We won't know who did the right thing or wrong thing for several years.   Anyway the decisions are meaningless when everyone is doing there own thing.  I drove to Harford County on Saturday.   Anyone else with a car can drive to a county or state where they don't have the same regulations.  And I as sure that is what will happen.  If they don't have fireworks in Baltimore people will make trips to places that do have fireworks.   If Ocean City didn't open their beaches and hotels people would just travel to Myrtle Beach and visit those beaches.  

Same with baseball. If Baltimore doesn't want the Orioles to play here they will find somewhere else to play.  If there is live sports somewhere where we are allowed to travel to people will travel there.  

I went to a store for the first time in over 2 months the other day.  And there were just as many people shopping at Target as there always is.  You can't stop anything at this point whether you want to or not.  People have decided they are done quarantining.  Good luck changing their opinion.