Owners submit new economic plan to union : UPDATED

[DrungoHazewood]

8 minutes ago, Oriole1940 said:

Just leave the best sport ever invented,  ALONE.  As for extra innings, a huge part  of the success of Baseball is the methodical strategy employed.  The world is hustle and bustle, running to its own doom.  Let baseball be the escapism it has always been.  If its working for goodness sake, do not change it.   

You know you're arguing for massive, unregulated change.  They did nothing and homers went from one every four games to two a game.  They did nothing and strikeouts went from two a game to nine.  They did nothing and game times went from less than two hours to over three.  They did nothing and we went from two pitchers a game to six.  They changed no rules and pitchers went from completing 75% of their games to completing 1% of their games. 

If you want the game to completely change the simplest way is to leave it alone and give it time.  If you actually have a preference for what baseball should be like someone is going have to take some action.

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

42 minutes ago, jarman86 said:

I understand Clark's position.  Salary caps are not good for players.  I think the only one even remotely close to good for players is the NBAs, but the amount of math tied into that thing is so confusing, you need a degree in mathematics to understand.  I think a season will be played and players will cave.  MLB is not required to pay the players, but have to keep the CBA together.  If they stop, I believe it would be similar situation NBA is in that it would nullify the CBA, and then you have a whole new issue.  And you have not prepared players to save, so I would assume the minimum guys may be low on money reserves/wanting to earn money and not lose a year of their playing ability.  If they can get language for some special, one year agreement to these terms, that would be I think best outcome.  

I totally understand the players perspective, but like you mentioned, the players don't have a ton of leverage here. They want to play so they can get paid, accrue service time, etc - but don't want to establish a precedent in the future. And - they're going to lose public support really quickly if a bunch of millionaires are arguing over 50% vs 60%. I wouldn't want to be Tony Clark right now.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

I totally understand the players perspective, but like you mentioned, the players don't have a ton of leverage here. They want to play so they can get paid, accrue service time, etc - but don't want to establish a precedent in the future. And - they're going to lose public support really quickly if a bunch of millionaires are arguing over 50% vs 60%. I wouldn't want to be Tony Clark right now.

It's an easy argument for owners to make when they don't have any attendance.

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's an easy argument for owners to make when they don't have any attendance.

Tony Clark: Salaries should never be tied to revenues!!

The owners: We have no revenues.

Tony Clark:  Don't care, take a loan out or something.

Tony isn't going to win this one.  The fans already side with the owners over the players, in a normal situation.

[Dipper9]

3 hours ago, UpstateNYfan said:

Play a regular 10th, or 10th or 11th.....after that each team gets to start a player at 2nd base...see how it goes. Games are long enough, we don't need 15,16 inning games.

 

I wont down vote, but I could not disagree more with this.  One thing that makes baseball unique is its an un-timed game.  You play until there is a winner, and the rules are the same in the 1st inning as they are in the 31st inning.  

If people think games are too long, they have every right to leave whenever they have had enough.  

[Dipper9]

I had a discussion on FB with my cousin who doesn't agree with playing games in front of no fans.  I love going to the Yard, but I also love coming home from work, making dinner, cleaning up, and then sitting on the porch watching the Orioles every night.  Fans in the stadium have no effect on my enjoyment of watching on TV.

WWE is running fanless shows right now, and the matches themselves are pretty boring without the fan noise.  But most sports, especially baseball and golf, don't need loud fans to enjoy the games on TV.

Football might fall closer into the WWE category.  A fanless football game would be weird.  The crowd elevates the fun. 

[murph]

I am sure this has already been discussed, but I missed it, if they do get this off the ground with MLB playing but the minors not playing, how does roster management work?  Are the teams just hoping their Milb players stay in game shape and ready to preform if called up?  I know they are talking expanded rosters, but expanding enough to be able to compete with whatever losses happen (even in shortened season)?  I could think of a few more questions with the Milb players, but has this been discussed and how the full major and minor league rosters would be handled?

 

[DrungoHazewood]

16 minutes ago, Dipper9 said:

I had a discussion on FB with my cousin who doesn't agree with playing games in front of no fans.  I love going to the Yard, but I also love coming home from work, making dinner, cleaning up, and then sitting on the porch watching the Orioles every night.  Fans in the stadium have no effect on my enjoyment of watching on TV.

WWE is running fanless shows right now, and the matches themselves are pretty boring without the fan noise.  But most sports, especially baseball and golf, don't need loud fans to enjoy the games on TV.

Football might fall closer into the WWE category.  A fanless football game would be weird.  The crowd elevates the fun. 

Korea and Japan and Taiwan are probably having a really tough time because their fans are more like football or soccer fans.  They sing, they chant, they stand and jump and scream and they're into the game in a way that would annoy a lot of US baseball fans.  Watching Korean baseball this week has been fun, but a constant refrain from announcers and guests is "you should see this when there are crowds."

[UpstateNYfan]

31 minutes ago, Dipper9 said:

I wont down vote, but I could not disagree more with this.  One thing that makes baseball unique is its an un-timed game.  You play until there is a winner, and the rules are the same in the 1st inning as they are in the 31st inning.  

If people think games are too long, they have every right to leave whenever they have had enough.  

You would still be playing until there is a winner, not timed and it could go 31 innings.

[Tony-OH]

7 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

Previous strikes hurt baseball pretty deep and lost fans. 

I think if the players caused the 2020 season to be missed, would be unforgivable by some friends, in this pandemic crisis.

Are the players greedy, yes, they are.

Are the Owners greedy, yes, they are.

Is there money to be made on both sides, yes there is.

So figure out a a fair and equitable solution for all.

Exactly. Especially when the owners started off with a 50/50 revenue split option. That's sounds pretty fair without knowing all the specifics. 

[Can_of_corn]

13 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Exactly. Especially when the owners started off with a 50/50 revenue split option. That's sounds pretty fair without knowing all the specifics. 

Think how useful a deep look into the owners' books would be come the next CBA.

[weams]

 

[24fps]

16 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Think how useful a deep look into the owners' books would be come the next CBA.

Should the owners ever open an honest set of books to the MLBPA, I think I would be too busy watching the pigs fly by to pay attention.  Did you know that no movie in the history of Hollywood ever made money?  Fact.  Just ask all the profit participants.

[Philip]

1 hour ago, UpstateNYfan said:

You would still be playing until there is a winner, not timed and it could go 31 innings.

At what point do the changes we make turn baseball into something that is not baseball? For the millionth time, the problem is not the length of game, but that the variables are being removed and it is boring.

The 2014 wildcard game between the A’s and Royals was one of the most exciting games I’ve ever seen. It’s lousy in replay, But live, the suspense was one of the most intense things I’ve ever experienced in sports.

I am an American Leaguer, But I really appreciate National League strategy necessitated by the lack of a DH.

Regardless, striving to shorten the game is tilting at windmills. The game length is not the problem.

[UpstateNYfan]

3 minutes ago, Philip said:

At what point do the changes we make turn baseball into something that is not baseball? For the millionth time, the problem is not the length of game, but that the variables are being removed and it is boring.

The 2014 wildcard game between the A’s and Royals was one of the most exciting games I’ve ever seen. It’s lousy in replay, But live, the suspense was one of the most intense things I’ve ever experienced in sports.

I am an American Leaguer, But I really appreciate National League strategy necessitated by the lack of a DH.

Regardless, striving to shorten the game is tilting at windmills. The game length is not the problem.

First of all, I did not endorse changes, I suggested this would be the right time for them to try things if they were thinking of it. Everyone bitches about strike calls..try the electronic now, see if it works or is liked...and other possibilities too. I would never suggest in playoffs that games would not be normal..but maybe during the season extra inning games might be changed. Did the 3 point shot make basketball ruin basketball? Did the 40 second clock in college ball ruin college ball? Did moving goal posts off the goal line ruin football? Did hockey OT game changes ruin hockey? Did lowering the pitching mound ruin baseball? There still would be 3 strikes, 3 outs in an inning, each team gets equal number of at bats, 9 innings. I guess by your wishes games called off after 5 innings would be replayed, despite a team leading at that point.  When is baseball not baseball? Have you watched the O's the last two years. It hasn't resembled MLB in many ways.