2020 Round 4 (103): Coby Mayo - 3B - (HS)(Marjory Stoneman Douglas)

[BohKnowsBmore]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Haha, physically he reminds me of Mountcastle. 

Arm is a huge difference I would think

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Arm is a huge difference I would think

I just meant how he looks. Also swinging the bat.

[ScGO's]

6 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

This is great stuff.  Was it typically the parents who would be paying the bills and who you therefore had to sell?  Or would college kids be taking out loans to pay for these services?  

Parents paid the money.  But I worked with some kids to gain sponsorship money from local businesses, family, friends, etc. 

The better you were the less money you paid.  You would hold an Under Armour Tryout for $99 bucks at some regional location and get anywhere from 30 to 70 kids out to an event.  The scouting evals were accurate, but it was how they were spun to the parents and kids through the business guys that pissed me off.  If you were a stud, you either came to events free or for a few hundred bucks.  If you were anywhere from good to terrible, they would sling you camps and recruiting programs that ranged from $3999 to $6999.  They went after affluent and wealthy demographics.  If you were broke, they would pretty much move on.  If you were terrible, but they knew you had money, they would go after you hard.

If some of these broke kids had ability, I would throw them my cell and work with them on side to provide free guidance and some film.  The MOST important thing I learned from this job was that, if you could had some gumption and you could take initiative you could find a place to play in college (as long as you had some talent).  College prospects fall into 3 categories in my opinion: Good, Great, and Elite.  Elite kids are the drafted and high end D1 (maybe high end JUCO) kids.  The great are the mid major D1s down to the D2s, better NAIAs, D3s, and JUCOs.  The good fell in at the rest of the JUCOs, D3s, NAIAs, and USCAA schools.  Even some high school average kids could find a spot if they had great grades, some baseball IQ, and a go get em attitude. 

The model I pitch to kids is a DIY model.  Instead of paying 7 G's, I film them, grade them out on a 20-70 scale (40 his a HS avg tool), and give them an honest projection for 300 bucks (if they can't afford it, we work it out some how by either cutting their folks a deal or helping them find sponsors; I don't really say no to anyone).  Then I spend some time on the phone with their family giving them the ins and outs to recruiting, I get an idea of what they want to study, etc, and I give them some suggestions and a college recruiting manual I put together, and I tell them good luck, call me if you need me. I'll make a call for them if they need it as I have a decent network, and even if I don't know the coach, I can usually gain their trust after a few minutes of talking and they know I'm not full of shit.  I only work regionally.  I have no desire to be a PG or BF.  I just want to help western NC.  My main gig is running after school programs and mini camps with the little guys trying to grow the game.  As far as HS prospects, my target goal is to work with about 100 kids in the region each year on the recruiting side. 

Parents are really the main thing that get in the way.  They shoot for the stars and they have no freaking concept of reality.  A kid comes out, has a little pop, maybe throws 80 mph across the diamond, and  has an average 40 yard dash.  I tell them to focus on small schools, and they get pissed cus I won't make a call to Clemson for them, but I'd call a D3 like Guilford or NC Wesleyn where they could actually play.  "Well he plays on this Top Prospects Team, blah blah blah."  Ok, go for it.  But it ain't gonna happen, and its a bummer cus he could have played for four more years if he kept his options open.

I like working with the broke kids because they are thankful and they work harder at the process.  They aren't afraid to pick up the phone and call a coach.  Spoiled, rich travel team kids think that someone should come find them.  Yeah, well tell me the last time you saw random college coaches show up to your HS or travel games.  You gotta go get them. Even at a PG event, they invite in 100 teams, and they put the top 10 teams in the main facility, all the coaches see what they need to in the first 2 hours and they send the other 90 teams to fields 45 minutes away on the outskirts of town to play in front of nobody.  And the sad part is that those teams have some decent players on them, they just aren't elite.  Those poor families spend thousands on a "dream" by these companies.

The pattern is easy though (easy in concept, not in effort).  Pay for a good film and an honest eval.  Email blast 50+ schools that you can get into academically, it has what you are looking for as a student/person, and you can realistically play for them. Wait a week and start calling the coaches directly (you, not the parents) and ask good questions about the campus, what you want to study, and the coach's expectations, then narrow it down and go to a couple of the schools that you like's prospect camps which usually only have about 20-30 players at them as opposed to a Clemson or UNC that has 200.  (Remember, 80% of college baseball is BELOW the D1 level, and most D1s aren't even fully funded at that).  Visit the campus while you are there, meet with the coach, get a vibe, and the rest will start to take care of itself.  Don't depend on scholarship money; it ain't there, so get your FAFSA in, look for academic and other scholarships at the university and in your community, and make a decision. I just had a kid sign with Norwich University in VT today.  He wanted to be a Marine, but loved baseball.  He was all ready to sign his Marine contract, but I told him, there are military schools out there that you can play at for four years, get the Marines to pay for it for you, and then you go into the Marines as a 21 year old instead of an 18 year old.  He never knew that was a thing.  It was awesome to see him sign his National Letter of Intent today because he's getting everything he wanted out of the situation, and 2 months ago he was lost in the process and was ready to just ship off to Paris Island after graduation.  Its stories like this that I am all about making happen.

[Philip]

1 hour ago, Enjoy Terror said:

My eyes got a little wider right here.

Can’t wait to see pictures!

[FlipTheBird]

3 hours ago, ScGO's said:

there are great baseball people that work at both those companies.  Guys I owe so much too, but I could speak for days about the corruption (at least I saw it that way) that I witnessed.  I almost went to blows with a few employees there about some ethical things I saw.  However, I was blessed to have the opportunity.

My favorite moment working there was when I drove up to the Carpenter Cup at UPenn and saw Mike Trout after his sophomore year.  He wasn't really on the radar yet even though he had an amazing sophomore season.  But no one was talking about him when I got there.  In his first at bat, he got a little fooled on a curve, but kept his hands back and crushed the ball off the right centerfield wall.  I looked up and he was standing on 3rd base.  He pitched in the game and I clocked him on the JUGS gun at 86mph.  I was there scouting for our Team One sister company (I think that company is now defunct) and I went home raving about the kid.  I talked to him and his dad for about 6 months about attending our Team One East Regional, but it just wouldn't coincide with their schedule.  Both Mike and his father were extremely nice, humble, and intelligent.  I think his dad said he played milb.  When we first started talking, no one really knew his name, but by the time that 6 months passed, we both knew he didn't need our help anymore.

On the flipside, I got to scout Bryce Harper out in Vegas as a freshman.  HUGE DICK.  I came home from that event (he was already hyped as a prospect) and told everyone in the office he was definitely going to be a superstar but I guaranteed he would never win a World Series on account of his POS attitude.  I stand by it today.

Another kid I got to work with was Nick Castellonos who was also a really cool kid at the time.  Really enthusiastic and polite. But to be honest, I enjoyed working with the small school prospects the most and trying to help them find a spot.  I used to get in trouble all the time for doing free services under the table for the less fortunate kids.  The marketing department would purposely skip over zipcodes that had demographics with lower household incomes.  It was BS.

I’m not sure what to make of you guaranteeing that Harper wouldn’t win a WS because of his attitude. Not sure that has anything to do with WS.

[janderson1622]

 

[RZNJ]

So, the slot amount for the #42 pick in the draft was 1.77M.  Theoretically,  any team who thought this kid was a 1st round talent would have just picked him which leads me to believe that most teams had him rated as a second round talent or lower. I'm not saying he's not a great pic. I'm just saying that calling him a 1st round talent is the company line.

[ISU94]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

So, the slot amount for the #42 pick in the draft was 1.77M.  Theoretically,  any team who thought this kid was a 1st round talent would have just picked him which leads me to believe that most teams had him rated as a second round talent or lower. I'm not saying he's not a great pic. I'm just saying that calling him a 1st round talent is the company line.

No one cares dude.

After the top 10-12 picks all MLB teams value on players is completely different than other teams. The "big board" media outlets aren't true value either. The MLB draft even more so than any other sport is a complete crapshoot. So even if he did get the slot amount of a 1st rounder it wouldn't mean any more or less as to his chances hitting. He was still a steal and wouldn't be an Oriole if we wouldn't have went underslot early.

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, ISU94 said:

No one cares dude.

After the top 10-12 picks all MLB teams value on players is completely different than other teams. The "big board" media outlets aren't true value either. The MLB draft even more so than any other sport is a complete crapshoot. So even if he did get the slot amount of a 1st rounder it wouldn't mean any more or less as to his chances hitting. He was still a steal and wouldn't be an Oriole if we wouldn't have went underslot early.

Ok, dude. He was a steal based on the Orioles perspective.  Lets be clear about that, dude!  It's possible that no other team considered him a steal. Under your definition of a "steal"  there are probably 29 other teams claiming they got steals in this draft. So there, dude.  Also, I don't carw how stupid you sound dude. I'm still willing to hear you out.  Cool!

[MountUrCastle]

11 hours ago, backwardsk said:

Don’t worry.  We’ll have more top 5 picks in the coming years.

And getting 4 top-5 calibre prospects when you could have had 5 for no other reason than to turn your 5th and 4th rounders into (essentially) late second to early third rounders is universally a reallllly bad tactic.

I actually really like this pick! Everything about him suggests that he doesn't have the mental or reflexive flaws in his game like Kjerstad, for example, does. Don't get me wrong, but if he wasn't an overslot, where would he go in the draft? Would he go in round #1? Would he go early round #2? I guess my question is would you rather have Mayo/Baumler/Kjerstad or Martin and two slot/underslot prospects with similar strengths? 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by MountUrCastle

[MountUrCastle]

11 hours ago, sylvester said:

Baseball isn't like football.  Here are the last 10 #2 picks

Bobby Witt

Joey Bard

Hunter Greene

Nick Senzel

Alex Bregman

Tyler kolak

Kris Bryant

Bryon Buxton

Danny Hultzen

Jameson Taillon

Two legit starts in Bregman and Bryant.  Two so/so players in Buxton and Taillon.  And its early on the couple guys that were taken in past few years. Kolak and Hudson were busts.  

What has come out of the last 10 #103 picks? You do notice that the top players from that 10 year sample are infield players and the worst tend to be pitchers?

(also, is it just me or is Joey Bard a ghost on google.)

[hoosiers]

13 minutes ago, MountUrCastle said:

I guess my question is would you rather have Mayo/Baumler/Kjerstad or Martin and two slot/underslot prospects with similar strengths? 

Our front office made their decision about which they prefer.  It seems like a reasonable gamble on the face of it - especially since two other teams passed on Martin - didn't have as high a rating on him.

It takes an interesting confluence of events to pull off what the Os did.  For the entire industry to have the ninth/tenth overall rating on Kjerstad and have a team like the Os value him so high.  And to have some top 50-60 talents deemed unsignable, but willing to sign.

[ScGO's]

7 hours ago, FlipTheBird said:

I’m not sure what to make of you guaranteeing that Harper wouldn’t win a WS because of his attitude. Not sure that has anything to do with WS.

In the same way Barry Bonds never won a WS.  He is a cancer.  He just won't allow the relationships to grow on a team  No trust and bad vibes will prevent a team from truly gelling and winning when the going gets tough.

I brought this up a few years ago during a similar convo.  I worked with a guy who played with Bonds at AZ State.  https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman%2F060504

This story is very accurate to what I was told about Bonds.  Bonds never won a WS and if you remember the 2002 WS, it was (in my opinion) Bonds' POS attitude that brought the team down and didn't allow them to win the big game. 

As far as Harper, remember when he won the HR Derby a few years back?  It was so obvious that he was in love with himself during that display that it was sickening.  He leaves the Nats, they immediately win the series.  One more Harper memory:

I wasn't at this showcase, but a few of my colleagues at the time were.  They were down in Tampa Bay doing a showcase/home run derby.  All the prospects were lined up on the foul line and my co-worker is going to each player with a camera asking them to state their name, school, and position. "I'm so and so, from such and such high school, Outfield."  She gets to Harper, he stares right at her and says "You know who I am."  This was a 16 year old kid talking to an adult in her late 20's at the time.  She looks at him and says, "ok? but we need this shot."  She had to go get help from one of the scouts just to get him to say a simple flipping sentence. 

I'll state it again, he'll never win a WS on account of he can't get out of the way of his own ego.

 

 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, janderson1622 said:

 

Really good news.

Unfortunately we can't watch him play or get scouting reports about how he's doing this summer...but still, really good news.

[Moose Milligan]

21 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

In the same way Barry Bonds never won a WS.  He is a cancer.  He just won't allow the relationships to grow on a team  No trust and bad vibes will prevent a team from truly gelling and winning when the going gets tough.

I brought this up a few years ago during a similar convo.  I worked with a guy who played with Bonds at AZ State.  https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman%2F060504

This story is very accurate to what I was told about Bonds.  Bonds never won a WS and if you remember the 2002 WS, it was (in my opinion) Bonds' POS attitude that brought the team down and didn't allow them to win the big game. 

As far as Harper, remember when he won the HR Derby a few years back?  It was so obvious that he was in love with himself during that display that it was sickening.  He leaves the Nats, they immediately win the series.  One more Harper memory:

I wasn't at this showcase, but a few of my colleagues at the time were.  They were down in Tampa Bay doing a showcase/home run derby.  All the prospects were lined up on the foul line and my co-worker is going to each player with a camera asking them to state their name, school, and position. "I'm so and so, from such and such high school, Outfield."  She gets to Harper, he stares right at her and says "You know who I am."  This was a 16 year old kid talking to an adult in her late 20's at the time.  She looks at him and says, "ok? but we need this shot."  She had to go get help from one of the scouts just to get him to say a simple flipping sentence. 

I'll state it again, he'll never win a WS on account of he can't get out of the way of his own ego.

 

 

I don't disagree that Bonds and Harper are jerks...but baseball isn't like football or basketball where a quarterback or running back or power forward can take over a game and carry a weaker team.

Bonds was incredible in 2002.

Quote

Bonds’s ravaging run through the 2002 postseason was mesmerizing. Through 10 games in the first two playoff rounds, Bonds homered four times and walked 14 more; he carried a .286/.500/.786 playoff line into the World Series.

Quote

The 2002 World Series was just another forum to cement his dominance. Bonds mashed three home runs in the first three games, and yet somehow his team was down 2-1. But then three intentional walks in a victorious Game Four and three hits including two doubles in Game Five saw him and his Giants just a win away from a championship.

By the time Game Six rolled around, Bonds had racked up a 2.144 OPS in 22 plate appearances, a mark surpassed only by Lou Gehrig’s 1928 series, a 2.433 OPS headlined by four home runs in four games (17 PA).

Quote

Bonds ended the World Series quietly by his standards — 1-for-3, a walk and the loss in Game Seven by a 4-1 score. Still, Bonds finished with a 1.994 OPS in the series, the fifth-best mark ever and the best ever with at least 20 plate appearances (second being Reggie Jackson’s 1977 series, including his three-homer Game Six).

But Troy Glaus had a 1.313 OPS of his own and was backed up by a 1.067 mark from Tim Salmon. Scott Spiezio did his crazy clutch thing and went 6-for-23 with three extra-base hits in the series. Francisco Rodriguez was stellar outside of his hiccup against Bonds in Game Six, throwing 8.2 innings with 13 strikeouts and just two runs allowed, and that was enough to bring down the mighty Bonds and his Giants.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/barry-bonds-and-the-2002-world-series/

I mean, it was a historic World Series, one of the best performances ever.  It's not like he got there and choked.

Despite baseball not being set up like football and basketball where one or two players can transform a game, Bonds was as close as you could get to that in 2002.  IIRC, he was responsible for an incredibly large percentage of the Giants runs, I think it was some sort of record, but I can't find it.  You can say the Giants didn't win the World Series because of Bonds...maybe that's true.  But what's definitely true is that the Giants don't sniff the World Series WITHOUT Bonds.  

I understand your want for good, hard nosed ballplayers that are "yes sir, no sir,"  take coaching well, work hard and come back for more work each day with a smile on their face and don't grumble about anything.  We all want those types.  

But to say Bonds didn't win a WS or Harper won't win a WS cause they're jerks is a pretty shortsighted statement.  I mean Reggie Jackson was a jerk, he won quite a few World Series championships.  Pretty sure his teammates in NY hated him, too.  There have been several egotistical jerks that have won a World Series before.