Means has arm fatigue (Milone starts opening day)

[Philip]

1 hour ago, weams said:

Raise the mound. Take Second Base, Shortstop, and Catcher out as offensive positions. Bunt every time through the order.  Bob was one of the best pitchers of All Time. Best. 

I remember Fergie Jenkins taking about 2 seconds between pitches. He wasted no time at all and pitched a tremendous number of innings. His first year with the Rangers, he went 25-12. 37 decisions!  41 starts! 328 innings! And yet he still lost the Cy Young. 

There were men in those days!

[UpstateNYfan]

9 minutes ago, Philip said:

I remember Fergie Jenkins taking about 2 seconds between pitches. He wasted no time at all and pitched a tremendous number of innings. His first year with the Rangers, he went 25-12. 37 decisions!  41 starts! 328 innings! And yet he still lost the Cy Young. 

There were men in those days!

There was no analytics back then, no magic 100 pitch rule that said everyone sucks after 100 pitches...They just pitched and came back three days later and pitched again. I acknowledge the game has changed....bigger, stronger players at all positions but we seem to let data apply to all and neglect the possible outliers that exist.

[Philip]

15 minutes ago, UpstateNYfan said:

There was no analytics back then, no magic 100 pitch rule that said everyone sucks after 100 pitches...They just pitched and came back three days later and pitched again. I acknowledge the game has changed....bigger, stronger players at all positions but we seem to let data apply to all and neglect the possible outliers that exist.

Fergie Jenkins was one of my very favorites, but that year he lost the Cy Young to catfish Hunter, who was no slouch, and Nolan Ryan routinely pitched 300 innings or more every year.

And they weren’t the only ones, either, they’re just the ones that dominate our memory because they are Hall of Famer’s. But I wonder what they would’ve done if they had had access the same resources that benefit the guys today? Would their careers have been appreciably longer? I actually don’t think so, Because the analysts would probably have suggested that they pitch less. Fewer innings, fewer pitches per outing but not necessarily more or better career results.

There is a learned article somewhere in here, and I hope somebody writes it.

[thezeroes]

Today, most baseball players have only played one sport since eight/nine years old.  here is a simple list of thos three mentioned above and what they played.  It has been noted by several publications that this is the reason there is more injuries to pitchers in baseball as they exclusively use the same muscle groups at a constant level and length of time without toning those other groups used in other sports.

37 minutes ago, Philip said:

Fergie Jenkins was one of my very favorites, but that year he lost the Cy Young to catfish Hunter, who was no slouch, and Nolan Ryan routinely pitched 300 innings or more every year.

And they weren’t the only ones, either, they’re just the ones that dominate our memory because they are Hall of Famer’s. But I wonder what they would’ve done if they had had access the same resources that benefit the guys today? Would their careers have been appreciably longer? I actually don’t think so, Because the analysts would probably have suggested that they pitch less. Fewer innings, fewer pitches per outing but not necessarily more or better career results.

There is a learned article somewhere in here, and I hope somebody writes it.

Today, most baseball players have only played one sport since eight/nine years old.  Here is a simple list of those three mentioned above and what they played other than Baseball.  It has been noted by several publications that this is the reason there is more injuries to pitchers in baseball as they exclusively use the same muscle groups at a constant level and length of time without toning those other groups used in other sports.  https://thesportsinstitute.com/do-single-sport-athletes-have-more-overuse-injuries/

Ferguson Jenkins - A talented athlete, Jenkins competed in track and field, ice hockey, and basketball in his school years, lettering five times.

Catfish Hunter -He played linebacker and offensive tackle in football as well as shortstop, cleanup batter, and pitcher in baseball.

Nolan Ryan - In junior high school, Ryan could throw a softball over 100 yards. After ninth grade, Ryan quit playing football after a tackle and fumble caused by future NFL running back Norm Bulaich made him decide to focus on baseball.

[weams]

 

[Can_of_corn]

Anyone else shocked this is Tommy Milone's first opening day start?

[VaBird1]

28 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Anyone else shocked this is Tommy Milone's first opening day start?

Not me

[eddie83]

I wonder if Millone will be used as more of an opener here. Of course who is to say how long he will last period. Eshelman to follow. 

[Sports Guy]

Worst OD starter ever for the Os?

[VaBird1]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Worst OD starter ever for the Os?

Has to be.  He was slated to be 5th starter a couple of days ago. 

[Enjoy Terror]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Anyone else shocked this is Tommy Milone's first opening day start?

Shocked because someone asked him to do it, sure

[SteveA]

13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Worst OD starter ever for the Os?

I don't know anything about Kretlow, White, Brown, Johnson, or Harshman.

Modern day guys who weren't great:  Dave Schmidt, Pat Hentgen (was past his prime), Millwood, Cashner.

Could be.

 

Season	Pitcher	Decision	Final score	Opponent	Location	Ref(s)
1954	Don Larsen	L	0–3	Detroit Tigers	Tiger Stadium	[4][5][9][13]
1955	Lou Kretlow	L	5–12	Washington Senators	Griffith Stadium	[4][6][10][14]
1956	Bill Wight	L	1–8	Boston Red Sox	Fenway Park	[15]
1957	Hal Brown	ND (W)	7–6	Washington Senators	Griffith Stadium	[16]
1958	Connie Johnson	ND (W)	6–1	Washington Senators	Memorial Stadium	[17]
1959	Jack Harshman	L	2–9	Washington Senators	Griffith Stadium	[18]
1960	Jerry Walker	ND (W)	3–2	Washington Senators	Memorial Stadium	[19]
1961	Milt Pappas	L	2–7	Los Angeles Angels	Memorial Stadium	[20]
1962	Billy Hoeft	ND (L)	6–7	New York Yankees	Yankee Stadium	[21]
1963	Steve Barber	W	3–1	Washington Senators	District of Columbia Stadium	[22]
1964	Milt Pappas (2)	ND (W)	5–3	Chicago White Sox	Comiskey Park	[23]
1965	Steve Barber (2)	L	3–5	Chicago White Sox	Memorial Stadium	[24]
1966†	Steve Barber (3)	ND (W)	5–4	Boston Red Sox	Fenway Park	[25]
1967	Dave McNally	ND (W)	6–3	Minnesota Twins	Memorial Stadium	[26]
1968	Tom Phoebus	W	3–1	Oakland Athletics	Memorial Stadium	[27]
1969**	Dave McNally (2)	ND (L)	4–5	Boston Red Sox	Memorial Stadium	[28]
1970†	Dave McNally (3)	W	8–2	Cleveland Indians	Cleveland Stadium	[29]
1971**	Dave McNally (4)	W	3–2	Washington Senators	Memorial Stadium	[30]
1972	Pat Dobson	W	3–1	New York Yankees	Memorial Stadium	[31]
1973*	Dave McNally (5)	W	10–0	Milwaukee Brewers	Memorial Stadium	[32]
1974*	Jim Palmer	W	3–2	Detroit Tigers	Memorial Stadium	[33]
1975	Jim Palmer (2)	W	10–0	Detroit Tigers	Tiger Stadium	[34]
1976	Jim Palmer (3)	W	1–0	Boston Red Sox	Memorial Stadium	[35]
1977	Jim Palmer (4)	L	1–2	Texas Rangers	Memorial Stadium	[36]
1978	Mike Flanagan	L	3–11	Milwaukee Brewers	County Stadium	[37]
1979**	Jim Palmer (5)	W	5–3	Chicago White Sox	Memorial Stadium	[38]
1980	Jim Palmer (6)	W	5–3	Chicago White Sox	Comiskey Park	[39]
1981	Steve Stone	W	5–3	Kansas City Royals	Memorial Stadium	[40]
1982	Dennis Martínez	ND (W)	13–5	Kansas City Royals	Memorial Stadium	[41]
1983†	Dennis Martínez (2)	L	2–7	Kansas City Royals	Memorial Stadium	[42]
1984	Scott McGregor	L	2–5	Chicago White Sox	Memorial Stadium	[43]
1985	Storm Davis	ND (W)	4–2	Texas Rangers	Memorial Stadium	[44]
1986	Mike Flanagan (2)	L	4–6	Cleveland Indians	Memorial Stadium	[45]
1987	Mike Boddicker	ND (W)	2–1	Texas Rangers	Memorial Stadium	[46]
1988	Mike Boddicker (2)	L	0–12	Milwaukee Brewers	Memorial Stadium	[47]
1989	Dave Schmidt	ND (W)	5–4	Boston Red Sox	Memorial Stadium	[48]
1990	Bob Milacki	ND (W)	7–6	Kansas City Royals	Royals Stadium	[49]
1991	Jeff Ballard	L	1–9	Chicago White Sox	Memorial Stadium	[50]
1992	Rick Sutcliffe	W	2–0	Cleveland Indians	Camden Yards	[51]
1993	Rick Sutcliffe (2)	L	4–7	Texas Rangers	Camden Yards	[52]
1994	Mike Mussina	W	6–3	Kansas City Royals	Camden Yards	[53]
1995	Mike Mussina (2)	ND (L)	1–5	Kansas City Royals	Kauffman Stadium	[54]
1996*	Mike Mussina (3)	W	4–2	Kansas City Royals	Camden Yards	[55]
1997*	Jimmy Key	W	4–2	Kansas City Royals	Camden Yards	[56]
1998	Mike Mussina (4)	L	1–4	Kansas City Royals	Camden Yards	[57]
1999	Mike Mussina (5)	W	10–7	Tampa Bay Devil Rays	Camden Yards	[58]
2000	Mike Mussina (6)	L	1–4	Cleveland Indians	Camden Yards	[59]
2001	Pat Hentgen	ND (W)	2–1	Boston Red Sox	Camden Yards	[60]
2002	Scott Erickson	W	10–3	New York Yankees	Camden Yards	[61][62]
2003	Rodrigo López	ND (W)	6–5	Cleveland Indians	Camden Yards	[63][64]
2004	Sidney Ponson	W	7–2	Boston Red Sox	Camden Yards	[65][66]
2005	Rodrigo López (2)	W	4–0	Oakland Athletics	Camden Yards	[67][68]
2006	Rodrigo López (3)	W	9–6	Tampa Bay Devil Rays	Camden Yards	[69][70]
2007	Érik Bédard	L	4–7	Minnesota Twins	Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome	[71][72]
2008	Jeremy Guthrie	L	2–6	Tampa Bay Rays	Camden Yards	[73][74]
2009	Jeremy Guthrie (2)	W	10–5	New York Yankees	Camden Yards	[11]
2010	Kevin Millwood	ND (L)	3–4	Tampa Bay Rays	Tropicana Field	[7]
2011	Jeremy Guthrie (3)	W	3–1	Tampa Bay Rays	Tropicana Field
2012*	Jake Arrieta	W	3–2	Minnesota Twins	Camden Yards
2013	Jason Hammel	W	4–3	Tampa Bay Rays	Tropicana Field
2014*	Chris Tillman	W	2–1	Boston Red Sox	Camden Yards
2015	Chris Tillman (2)	W	6–2	Tampa Bay Rays	Tropicana Field
2016*	Chris Tillman (3)	W	3-2	Minnesota Twins	Camden Yards
2017	Kevin Gausman	ND (W)	3-2	Toronto Blue Jays	Camden Yards
2018	Dylan Bundy	ND (W)	3-2	Minnesota Twins	Camden Yards
2019	Andrew Cashner	L	2-7	New York Yankees	Yankee Stadium

[Can_of_corn]

Kretlow shot a hole in one on a 427 yard par-4.  Let's see Gerrit Cole do that.

 

[fitzi22]

I still think we should have traded Means in the offseason when his trade value was highest.

Edited July 21, 2020 by fitzi22

[ArtVanDelay]

9 minutes ago, fitzi22 said:

I still think we should have traded Means in the offseason when his trade value was highest.

I doubt Means ever had much trade value.