The defense thread, 2020

[OFFNY]

1 hour ago, Oriole1940 said:

 

This one was  really hard to swallow, seeing as the team fought back from a multi-run hole against one of the very best pitchers in all of baseball. I hope that they shrug it off,  but I have seen similar situations  cause the start of a losing streak. This team is nothing if they are not scrappy, so maybe they will say to themselves,  "To hell with it, let's start winning again."

 

o

 

The Orioles and their fans had their hearts ripped out by Aaron Judge and the Yankees by a 9th-inning, game-winning home run ...... and then proceeded to sweep the Rays.

The Orioles got their butts kicked 4 straight games by the lightly-regarded Marlins ...... and then proceeded to win 6 straight games.

The Oriole offense was handcuffed for 8 innings by a very questionable Nationals bullpen on Friday night, and then managed to score 5 runs in 7 innings off of Max Scherzer on Sunday afternoon.

 

The only thing that we can presume about what's going to happen next with this team is that we have no idea as to what is going to happen next with this team. )) 

 

o

[Ruzious]

22 minutes ago, WillyM said:

I saw the first inning, and the three base hits to left field looked pretty legitimate to me.  It looked like the Nats' scouting report said to run on Smith's arm every chance you get - Cabrera did that to score from second on Robles' single, and Smith's throw was weak and off-line.

The bloop that fell over Nunez' head was definitely not a routine play - if it had been, the umps would have called the infield fly rule, because there were runners on first and second and only one out.  Nunez was playing in, the ball wasn't hit very high, and he would have had to make a really good play to get back quickly enough to catch that one.  Alberto was overshifted to the third-base side, so he had no chance to get to the ball.  If the Orioles had been playing straight-up infield defense, Alberto probably could have caught it easily, but whoever plays straight-up infield defense these days?

It's interesting how people can watch the same plays and see things completely differently.  On the first fly ball to Smith, that was definitely catchable by a good LFer.  I was watching the Nats broadcast of the game, and FP Santangelo even said it look catchable to him and was surprised Smith didn't try to catch it.  And if he made that catch, Means could have survived that 1st inning. 

On the Nunez play, it was a weakly hit ball than wasn't hit far behind him.  Nunez first step was forward - which slowed him and then he backpedaled for it - as it fell just behind him.  It wasn't quite directly behind him.  Even with the bad 1st step, he could have turned 90 degrees and got to it quicker than backpedaling.  Just bad instincts altogether on his part. 

These are plays that are never going to be ruled as "errors", but they're mistakes that kill a pitching staff. 

 

 

[Yardball85]

I am really, really over Dwight Smith in left field and at the plate.  Seems like a great guy, and he has had his moments, but can his defense really be so much better than Mountcastle's that he should continue starting every day?

[Ruzious]

6 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

I am really, really over Dwight Smith in left field and at the plate.  Seems like a great guy, and he has had his moments, but can his defense really be so much better than Mountcastle's that he should continue starting every day?

Smith is one of the worst LFers I've ever seen - maybe THE worst.  I can't imagine Mountcastle isn't better.  Same with Diaz, btw.

[Yardball85]

10 hours ago, Ruzious said:

Smith is one of the worst LFers I've ever seen - maybe THE worst.  I can't imagine Mountcastle isn't better.  Same with Diaz, btw.

100%  I would be thrilled if Diaz or Mountcastle came up to play left every day.  Let Velazquez start against tough righties or on off days for his defense.  We just don't need Smith anymore.

[DrungoHazewood]

12 hours ago, Ruzious said:

Smith is one of the worst LFers I've ever seen - maybe THE worst.  I can't imagine Mountcastle isn't better.  Same with Diaz, btw.

In 2019 he was 128th of 133 listed outfielders in outs above average by Statcast.

By DRS he's a -18 LFer in just over 1000 innings. 

He's been so poor that he would likely be more valuable DHing, which is hard to do.  And "valuable" is relative since a pretty good definition of replacement level is a DH with a 100 OPS+.

 

[Frobby]

13 hours ago, Ruzious said:

Smith is one of the worst LFers I've ever seen - maybe THE worst.  I can't imagine Mountcastle isn't better.  Same with Diaz, btw.

Two words for you: Jeff. Stone.   -53 Rtot/yr in the 21 games he lasted in 1988.    Guy had no clue.   

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Two words for you: Jeff. Stone.   -53 Rtot/yr in the 21 games he lasted in 1988.    Guy had no clue.   

That was the Shrimp Cocktail guy right?

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Two words for you: Jeff. Stone.   -53 Rtot/yr in the 21 games he lasted in 1988.    Guy had no clue.   

 

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

That was the Shrimp Cocktail guy right?

I just vaguely remember him being super-fast - nothing about any seafood.   

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Ruzious said:

 

I just vaguely remember him being super-fast - nothing about any seafood.   

If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, their was a story about him in which someone asked if he wanted a shrimp cocktail and he replied "I don't drink.".  He wasn't joking.

[Ruzious]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, their was a story about him in which someone asked if he wanted a shrimp cocktail and he replied "I don't drink.".  He wasn't joking.

No bullshot?

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/tyler-florence/shrimp-cocktail-bullshot-recipe-1948085

[Bubble Buddy]

15 hours ago, Ruzious said:

Smith is one of the worst LFers I've ever seen - maybe THE worst.  I can't imagine Mountcastle isn't better.  Same with Diaz, btw.

The key is, we want Mountcastle to be quite a bit better than Smith in the field. And if management finds they are able to get him some reps in the outfield at camp and prep him to be better than Smith, not just marginally so, then so be it.  

And I think that goes for a lot of the guys we think could be quality major leaguers. I imagine management is taking a full perspective on a guy's development and wanting to bring them up when they are ready enough. With someone like Mountcastle, we might as well try to see if he can improve his OF defense with more practice reps, before throwing him out into the majors. Sure, some guys can develop defensively in the majors, but I think that's rare. 

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Bubble Buddy said:

The key is, we want Mountcastle to be quite a bit better than Smith in the field. And if management finds they are able to get him some reps in the outfield at camp and prep him to be better than Smith, not just marginally so, then so be it.  

And I think that goes for a lot of the guys we think could be quality major leaguers. I imagine management is taking a full perspective on a guy's development and wanting to bring them up when they are ready enough. With someone like Mountcastle, we might as well try to see if he can improve his OF defense with more practice reps, before throwing him out into the majors. Sure, some guys can develop defensively in the majors, but I think that's rare. 

 

Because all improvement stops when you get to the majors.

[Bubble Buddy]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because all improvement stops when you get to the majors.

Not what I said, although I could have been more clear with the last sentence.

Guys can develop in the majors, but I imagine you want them at a certain threshold to start with. And for a guy like Mountcastle that doesn't have any passable defensive position to speak of, I'm OK if they want to try to build up his defensive skillset so he's not destined to be a DH. 

I'm a believer that minor league development makes a difference. Some guys can get thrown into the majors and do well right away. But I think timing of when and how you promote prospects can make a difference for the majority. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Bubble Buddy

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Bubble Buddy said:

Not what I said, although I could have been more clear with the last sentence.

Guys can develop in the majors, but I imagine you want them at a certain threshold to start with. And for a guy like Mountcastle that doesn't have any passable defensive position to speak of, I'm OK if they want to try to build up his defensive skillset so he's not destined to be a DH. 

I'm a believer that minor league development makes a difference. Some guys can get thrown into the majors and do well right away. But I think timing of when and how you promote prospects can make a difference for the majority. 

And you think a couple of weeks in minor league camp is the difference?

I don't.