How much longer do we hang onto...

[nadecir]

The Orioles can't afford another sub 2 million in attendance. Fans are fed up and are moving on. The Orioles can't afford another losing season with the same cast of characters. If MacPhail takes his time, there may not be any fanbase left to watch his newly assembled team when they are ready to compete.

Why don't you think the Orioles can afford another sub 2 million season in attendance? What do you think will happen with the team if they do have a sub 2 million attendance year in 2009?

Orioles attendance is close to bottoming out now. Pittsburgh draws 1.6 million fans, and the Pirates don't have the luxury of 400,000 Yankee and Red Sox fans invading their home park every year to increase their attendance.

I am not sure I see a likely scenario where the Orioles attendance drops by say more than about 10% more, unless average attendance across the majors drops significantly for some reason.

I wish this was the case, but I'm not sure attendance has much affect on the bottom line. Revenue streams are many and generally plentiful... fans don't make much difference. Especially if you're talking a change of 250k-500k in a season over a previous season.

There are more revenue streams in baseball today than before. But attendance is very important to every team in baseball. It is a key reason why some teams have significantly higher revenue than others. A 250 to 500k drop in attendance for any team would have a material effect on their bottom line.

You do realize that the Orioles will get between $70 to $80 million in revenue from fan attendance this year alone? And that's about half of the entire Orioles revenue?

Local broadcast rights and regional sports networks are important to every team, but fan attendance is very important also. Here's a good article that looks at baseball's revenue streams, and their relative importance.

http://www.bnet.com/2403-13502_23-210671.html

[Sports Guy]

LOL!!!

I can help you : when a GM comes in and hires SG as his personnel advisor, he'll praise him.

No, i am just not going to be like most on here and be satisfied with the idea that he isn't horrendous.

Guys like VaTech have continuously defended the GMs of this team...that is until they are gone.

We heard that beattie and Flanny were better because they were better than Thrift...And Duq was better because he was better than Beattie.

At some point, how about we stop comparing horrible GMs and start looking at what they are actually doing?

When a GM comes in here and is making the proper moves and has results...is creative aggressive, etc.....

At that point, i will be happy.

Making 2 vey good trades and sitting back and listening to praise isn't good enough for me.

[wickedwitch]

I agree. Our priorities should be to sign Tex, extend Roberts, then extend Markakis in that order.

No, no, and no.

Markakis should be priority number 1. Period. Having to give him a little bit more money to get it done early is worth it. He'll be better (and cheaper) than Teixeira for the next six/seven years.

Furthermore, Teixeira may not sign until December or January. We can't wait that long on Markakis or Roberts. And the amount we'd have to overpay him will be far less than the amount we'd have to overpay Markakis.

From their quotes, Markakis seems much more eager to extend than Roberts, so it will be easier to get Markakis first and use that to convince Roberts than to get Roberts first and use that to get Markakis.

Markakis is far and away the biggest priority this season. Signing Teixeira and extending Roberts means little if we can't extend Markakis.

[bigbird]

I have a feeling AM is not an aggressive type GM. Not one who goes out and pursues players who will make the team better. His style seem more from the Syd Thrift school where he waits by the phone.... When talking about dumb moves you have to rank starting the season with Luis Hernandez at SS and Steve Trachsel in the pen as top of the list. He also should have been all over pursuing Milledge and Reyes when they were available. People say how bad shape were in but justify not making moves. The topper is you can count the sure fire major league players in our system on two fingers.

[DrungoHazewood]

I have a feeling AM is not an aggressive type GM. Not one who goes out and pursues players who will make the team better. His style seem more from the Syd Thrift school where he waits by the phone.... When talking about dumb moves you have to rank starting the season with Luis Hernandez at SS and Steve Trachsel in the pen as top of the list. He also should have been all over pursuing Milledge and Reyes when they were available. People say how bad shape were in but justify not making moves. The topper is you can count the sure fire major league players in our system on two fingers.

You really really don't like MacPhail, do you? I remember about 2001 having 47-page arguments with you about Thrift, where your position was that he was somewhere between the village idiot and a cucumber.

Suffice it to say that you represent just about the lowest opinion of anyone on MacPhail's job.

[Dipper9]

Totally agree. But patience is in short supply in todays "I want it now" mentality.

Everyone always talks about the past 11 years and how awful its been. Let me remind you again, our last World Series appearance was TWENTY FIVE years ago. I'd say we have been one patient fan base!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is no reason Tex, Burnett or Lowe, AND one of Sabathia or Sheets can't be signed this offseason while still keeping the same rebuilding approach. Tex would be here for a while, the pitchers can be signed to 3 year deals, all geared towards helping to be competetive (ie in contention into September) in 2009 and start winning in 2010 and beyond. We would not be blocking anyone, and it would show the fans that the Orioles are serious about building a winning team again. Right now, we are a laughing stock, regardless of how good or bad a job MacPhail is doing rebuilding the farm. I don't want to be redundant, but in the AL East, you gotta build through the farm AND buy the right free agents. BOTH need to happen. Its not a game of either/or, because if that's the approach, then we'll find ourselves EITHER in 4th place OR 5th place every year for the forseeable future.

[JTrea81]

No, no, and no.

Markakis should be priority number 1. Period. Having to give him a little bit more money to get it done early is worth it. He'll be better (and cheaper) than Teixeira for the next six/seven years.

Furthermore, Teixeira may not sign until December or January. We can't wait that long on Markakis or Roberts. And the amount we'd have to overpay him will be far less than the amount we'd have to overpay Markakis.

From their quotes, Markakis seems much more eager to extend than Roberts, so it will be easier to get Markakis first and use that to convince Roberts than to get Roberts first and use that to get Markakis.

Markakis is far and away the biggest priority this season. Signing Teixeira and extending Roberts means little if we can't extend Markakis.

Markakis is a FA after the 2011 season. Roberts is a FA after the 2009 season and Tex is a FA after this season. Why would you lock up the guy who we have under team control the longest first?

It would be better IMO to sign Tex and then that convinces Roberts that we are serious about competing so he'll sign an extension, and then Markakis will be much more willing to compromise on his extension because he's got protection behind him and somebody to drive in batting in front of him in the lineup. So you might be able to get him for less - possibly having more option years than guaranteed years for example.

If you try to extend Markakis now without doing anything first, you will wind up paying more than if you extend him after you've shown him that you are going to compete in the next few years IMO. If you don't sign Tex and trade Roberts before you extend him, he may not want to sign at all...

And I'm not sure if Markakis will be better than Teixeira in the next four years. I think they'll be about the same with Teixeira having more power and Tex will obviously drive in more runs.

[Tony-OH]

I have a feeling AM is not an aggressive type GM. Not one who goes out and pursues players who will make the team better. His style seem more from the Syd Thrift school where he waits by the phone.... When talking about dumb moves you have to rank starting the season with Luis Hernandez at SS and Steve Trachsel in the pen as top of the list. He also should have been all over pursuing Milledge and Reyes when they were available. People say how bad shape were in but justify not making moves. The topper is you can count the sure fire major league players in our system on two fingers.

Are you talking position players or players including pitchers? If it's including pitchers I'd have to disagree with you. If we're talking hitters only, I'd have to say you are probably right if you mean sure fire major league starters who are close. Although we have the potential for more, I'd say only two are fairly guaranteed (Wieters/Reimold) and only one will be a star. I still have lots of hope for Snyder and Rowell though and I love the way Hoes started off.

[Dipper9]

No, no, and no.

Markakis should be priority number 1. Period. Having to give him a little bit more money to get it done early is worth it. He'll be better (and cheaper) than Teixeira for the next six/seven years.

Furthermore, Teixeira may not sign until December or January. We can't wait that long on Markakis or Roberts. And the amount we'd have to overpay him will be far less than the amount we'd have to overpay Markakis.

From their quotes, Markakis seems much more eager to extend than Roberts, so it will be easier to get Markakis first and use that to convince Roberts than to get Roberts first and use that to get Markakis.

Markakis is far and away the biggest priority this season. Signing Teixeira and extending Roberts means little if we can't extend Markakis.

I love Markakis to death, but it kills me the way that some people think he is alot better than what he really is, while also underestimating Tex.

[LookitsPuck]

Bedard trade, Tejada trade, Trachsel trade, Weiters signing, Matusz drafting.

I'd say he's coming along fine, although he certainly dropped the ball on the SS situation as well as our SP situation in regards to stabilizing it, IMHO.

[wildcard]

You really really don't like MacPhail, do you? I remember about 2001 having 47-page arguments with you about Thrift, where your position was that he was somewhere between the village idiot and a cucumber.

Suffice it to say that you represent just about the lowest opinion of anyone on MacPhail's job.

Most of Thirft's moves turned out to be similar to cucumbers, so I guess BB was right.

[wildcard]

I have a feeling AM is not an aggressive type GM. Not one who goes out and pursues players who will make the team better. His style seem more from the Syd Thrift school where he waits by the phone.... When talking about dumb moves you have to rank starting the season with Luis Hernandez at SS and Steve Trachsel in the pen as top of the list. He also should have been all over pursuing Milledge and Reyes when they were available. People say how bad shape were in but justify not making moves. The topper is you can count the sure fire major league players in our system on two fingers.

MacPhail spent a ton of the offseason to:

1) Evaluate how much he could get for Tejada

2) Get five players instead of two or three for Bedard

3) Try to get high quality players from the Cubs for BRob.

At that point he ran out of the time in the off season.

If you are saying that he still had holes at SS and the rotation, noone can argue that point. However you would have to say he did a lot over the offseason.

With that past performance as a guide, I would say he can get two established starters and a SS this off season.

He can probably also sign BRobert and Huff if their demands are reasonable. If they are not reasonable it is probably asking alot for MacPhail to get a leadoff hitter, cleanup hitter, two starters and a SS this off season. He just did not work that fast last season and probably will not this off season.

[bigbird]

Are you talking position players or players including pitchers? If it's including pitchers I'd have to disagree with you. If we're talking hitters only, I'd have to say you are probably right if you mean sure fire major league starters who are close. Although we have the potential for more, I'd say only two are fairly guaranteed (Wieters/Reimold) and only one will be a star. I still have lots of hope for Snyder and Rowell though and I love the way Hoes started off.

Position players........Sorry

[JTrea81]

MacPhail spent a ton of the offseason to:

1) Evaluate how much he could get for Tejada

2) Get five players instead of two or three for Bedard

3) Try to get high quality players from the Cubs for BRob.

At that point he ran out of the time in the off season.

If you are saying that he still had holes at SS and the rotation, noone can argue that point. However you would have to say he did a lot over the offseason.

With that past performance as a guide, I would say he can get two established starters and a SS this off season.

He can probably also sign BRobert and Huff if their demands are reasonable. If they are not reasonable it is probably asking alot for MacPhail to get a leadoff hitter, cleanup hitter, two starters and a SS this off season. He just did not work that fast last season and probably will not this off season.

MacPhail spent way too much time on the Bedard and Roberts deals. Billy Beane was able to trade two players in the span it took MacPhail to trade one. Especially with all the assistants he has, there is absolutely no excuse for the dearth of activity besides the Bedard and Tejada trades last offseason and the complete lack of movement this season.

This offseason we do not have an advantage at all with any of our players. Robinson Cano will be on the market IMO for the Yankees and he's a lot more attractive than Roberts despite his down year. And most teams don't really need an upgrade at 2B. Aubrey Huff will be the last option for teams after Tex, Burrell, Dunn and Giambi are off the market if he's an option at all.

Waiting will only make us lose out this offseason...

[bigbird]

Bedard trade, Tejada trade, Trachsel trade, Weiters signing, Matusz drafting.

I'd say he's coming along fine, although he certainly dropped the ball on the SS situation as well as our SP situation in regards to stabilizing it, IMHO.

Bedard - he deserves credit

Tejada - he deserves credit

Trachsel trade - just what has than netted us???

Weiters - that deal was cut by Duq and Jordan before the draft.

Matusz - Jordan gets credit here.