How much longer do we hang onto...

[glenn__davis]

My thing is, what is competitive in the eyes of AM? Most fans would define competitive as being a contender. AM may see it differently. I mean, we were competitive the first 3 months of this year, but that wasn't good enough to think contender.

He clearly said when he arrived hear that the goal of a major league baseball team is to make the playoffs, and that playing .500 baseball was no goal of his. You don't need to worry about what "competitive" means to MacPhail.

[Satyr3206]

To me I don't think you can set a definite standard for MacPhail to meet. You can't say win the WS by this date or you're gone. (Unless your last name is Steinbrenner) It could be argued that even setting win total goals isn't accurate because of injuries, down years, etc etc. The criteria should be is the Organization making progress toward the ultimate goal and does the blueprint to get there make sense? I think the answer to that is obvious.

[Mackus]

Peter Angelos handled negotiations along with MacPhail personally with Boras for Wieters as he will with Teixeira. It was Angelos who stepped up in the end as Jordan said...

I don't think Angelos was involved in the actual negotiations. He ultimately approved the final huge bonus, but I don't think he had anything to do with how Boras and the O's agreed upon that number.

[Flosman]

This thread blows my mind. Another year like the one that just past and we will be a very much improved organization. Do I know if AM will have another successfull year? No, I do not. Do I have any reason to think he won't? No I sure don't.

The problem SG and BB are identifying is that MLB teams do not operate in fantasy baseball leagues. I will be glad to say AM is a horrible GM when he actually does something poorly or fails to act on a real opportunity, until then I think it is only fair to judge what he has done, which can only be argued that he improved the club. What is it he failed to do that was possible, that I should be outraged about specifically? Please let me know because I would love to join you on the dark side with the play we have endured over the last month or so. But until I see AM actually do something wrong his track record speaks for itself. The Cubs deal for Roberts is mentioned a lot even though no one seems to actually show what the offer was. Obviously no one had any interest in our vets or Huff during this season.

I will admit I thought Flanny/Beatty were onto something in thier time here, all of the others I thought stunk. In hindsight I think Flanny did not move the iffy talent we had when value could be had. I think he thought we were closer than we actually were and the failure to move R Lopez, Chen, Ryan, williamson, etc really set the club back. In the current situation I think Roberts and Huff could be the same situation but I think it is a harder call on either of these guys than the guys Flanny had to deal from. But I really think we will see continued improvement in the clubs overall talent level and I predict we will actually develop a coherent system of developing the talent we do have in our system.

[Intimidator301]

He clearly said when he arrived hear that the goal of a major league baseball team is to make the playoffs, and that playing .500 baseball was no goal of his. You don't need to worry about what "competitive" means to MacPhail.

Saying and doing is two different things. I've heard MacPhail say a lot of things, that have yet to be addressed. I think Sportsguy's point was that also. He made two nice moves with Bedard/Tejada, and has basically lived off those moves every since.

I'm sure that AM isn't going to just come out and say he's happy with a .500 team, and the playoffs should be every baseball executives goal. But, there is no way we're going to be a .500 team by 2010, much less a playoff team. Unless, AM is willing to dip into the FA market. Which he doesn't seem inclined to do.

Don't get me wrong, I believe AM intentions are to build a winner. But, the last 11 years are going to make fans a lot less patient with him. He says what the fans want to hear, now he has to show us he means what he says. And, if his mind is made up on achieving that goal through just trades and the draft, we're in for another 5 years of mediocracy. And that's being optimistic.

[LookinUp]

And we've got the younger starting pitching as well as Nolan Reimold to deal for a SS like Khalil Greene or Jack Wilson.

I will puke if we trade our young pitching or one of our emerging position prospects for either Khalil Greene or Jack Wilson. We need a long term solution at SS. Neither of these guys are it.

This is 1000% correct and anyone denying that is burying their head in the sand.

So what grade would you give AM as of today? It's clearly not a D or an F based on what you say here. Chances are you'd give like a C, whereas a lot of us would give a B or an A understanding full well that this is a reflection of what he has done so far, not on what he still needs to do.

He made two nice moves with Bedard/Tejada, and has basically lived off those moves every since.

...

Unless, AM is willing to dip into the FA market. Which he doesn't seem inclined to do.

Honestly, Montanez looks like a potentially solid contributor for this team for years to come. I agree on the FA market issue though. This team will need a payroll of at least $100m to regularly compete long term.

What I don't understand is everyone's frustration that we're not at that payroll yet. As if spending money or trading a real asset for a SS or 1b this year would have been worth it. I'd rather watch Fahey play 162 games then give up a real prospect for a stop gap.

I want to see an investment this offseason, but I can't judge him on something that he can't do yet.

[Frobby]

This is 1000% correct and anyone denying that is burying their head in the sand.

HOWEVER, this goes back to the point of this thread...While AM has done a lot of good things, those things basically stopped at the Bedard deal. So, with that being the case, how much longer does he get before people start to wonder if he is the guy to get us to where we want to go?

Does he get until ST? OD? Next July 31? ST of 2010?

There's no single answer to your question. He has to continue making progress. If it were OD 2009 and he had accomplished nothing constructive over the winter, I'd be absolutely off the bandwagon. If he'd accomplished every single item on my wish list, I'd say he walks on water. Chances are, he'll have a mixed record. Some things will get done, other things we wanted done will still be hanging, and we'll know how we feel about it when we get there.

[wickedwitch]

I love Markakis to death, but it kills me the way that some people think he is alot better than what he really is, while also underestimating Tex.

My comment was assuming that Markakis will improve, which I very much believe will happen. Obviously, if he stays at his current level, it isn't true.

[osfan83]

Ultimetly all that matters is wins and losses. If you do everything right and the team never wins more than 75 games while he is GM...well then he failed. If he does everything wrong but the team ends up winning the WS while he is GM, well then he succeeded.

I need to see success on the field over 162 games. Win 80+ next year and I will believe we are on th right track. Win 72, and tank the last 40 again next year...then we would have done nothing to get better during his tenure.

[El Gordo]

There's no single answer to your question. He has to continue making progress. If it were OD 2009 and he had accomplished nothing constructive over the winter, I'd be absolutely off the bandwagon. If he'd accomplished every single item on my wish list, I'd say he walks on water. Chances are, he'll have a mixed record. Some things will get done, other things we wanted done will still be hanging, and we'll know how we feel about it when we get there.

If he accomplished everything we want done we'd be a contender next season. I personally see no reason, barring more bad luck with injuries, why we can't be an 80-85 win team next year and an 85-90 win team the year following. If we are too far off that mark, then I will feel he isn't doing his job.

[geschinger]

I love Markakis to death, but it kills me the way that some people think he is alot better than what he really is, while also underestimating Tex.

One thing Tex isn't around here is underestimated. Quite the opposite. However when compaing Markakis to Tex it is a relatively safe bet that a 25-32 year old Markakis will be more valuable (and cheaper) than a 29-35 year old Tex.

[Mad Mark]

One thing Tex isn't around here is underestimated. Quite the opposite. However when compaing Markakis to Tex it is a relatively safe bet that a 25-32 year old Markakis will be more valuable (and cheaper) than a 29-35 year old Tex.

Well, he likely won't be cheaper for the Orioles, as I do not expect Tiexiera to sign here...under any circimstance. In fact, if the Angels go deep into the playoffs, and offer money that's close to what the Orioles are offering, I'm willing to wager that he stays on the left coast.

Home is nice, and all that but who would you rather play for: your hometown team, which still kinda sucks, or a playoff team in sunny SoCal? Should we perhaps make a poll?

[geschinger]

Well, he likely won't be cheaper for the Orioles, as I do not expect Tiexiera to sign here...under any circimstance.

Under the (however unlikely) circumstance where the Orioles make the highest offer - without a doubt he's an Oriole.

In fact, if the Angels go deep into the playoffs, and offer money that's close to what the Orioles are offering, I'm willing to wager that he stays on the left coast. Home is nice, and all that but who would you rather play for: your hometown team, which still kinda sucks, or a playoff team in sunny SoCal? Should we perhaps make a poll?

None of that matters... Scott Boras... Which ever team makes the largest offer is the team that will land Tex.

[Mad Mark]

Under the (however unlikely) circumstance where the Orioles make the highest offer - without a doubt he's an Oriole.

None of that matters... Scott Boras... Which ever team makes the largest offer is the team that will land Tex.

Well, if that's the case, Tiexiera isn't all that clever, and kind of spineless. If I was given the choice between the Orioles and the Angels right now, the Orioles would have to crush--not just beat, but crush--the Angels offer. I believe my exact words would be "Scott, I'm sticking with the Angels, and if you don't like it, you can forward the paperwork to my new agent."

Let's be serious here...even Miss Pay-Rod fired Boras...eventually.

[Stotle]

Well, he likely won't be cheaper for the Orioles, as I do not expect Tiexiera to sign here...under any circimstance. In fact, if the Angels go deep into the playoffs, and offer money that's close to what the Orioles are offering, I'm willing to wager that he stays on the left coast.

Home is nice, and all that but who would you rather play for: your hometown team, which still kinda sucks, or a playoff team in sunny SoCal? Should we perhaps make a poll?

I honestly don't see LAA spending on Teix unless he absolutely carries them in the post season. I think it's more likely they spend on CC, who would likely give a discount to pitch in SoCal.

Teix looks like NYA or BAL bound. BOS likely won't be in the running with Anderson due soon and Youklis in place. Mets will exercise the option on Delgado. I might be missing someone?