Future of the pen

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Exactly.  Bullpens are moving towards eight or nine anonymous, $550k pitchers who all strike out 11 men per nine.  With another dozen in AAA on ready standby.  Order them alphabetically and starting in the 5th inning Hyde sounds an airhorn and the first one up comes in.  Repeat six times, game over.

Yep.  And I definitely think this is the thought process right now.  I am not sure that Elias only wants 4-5 IP starters but I do think that is what we will have for a little while because of all the youth, them learning to pitch, etc...

This is also one of the reasons why I am a big proponent of signing Stroman in the offseason.  Give them a good starter who will go deeper into games and with how cheap everyone else is going to be, paying him 17-22M a year won’t really matter.

[Can_of_corn]

16 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

It's smart, and it makes for a much less appealing form of entertainment.  Baseball is much better off when you have great players doing awesome things most of the time.  Now we have lineups of nine three true outcome players all trying to hit homers off of one of 13 anonymous pitchers who'll probably all pitch tonight for 11 pitches each.

Baseball is becoming more efficient and less entertaining by the day.  It's like the powers-that-be saw the Seinfeld bit about rooting for laundry and took it 100% literally.

I don't find it less entertaining. 

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't find it less entertaining. 

You don't count.  When most people see Gregg Olson snapping off an unhittable 12-6 curve to end the game they're not thinking "yea, his arb-3 value is going to be way higher than his overstated contributions as a 9th-inning reliever so we need to trade him right now."  They think it's fun to win baseball games with good pitchers.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

You don't count.  When most people see Gregg Olson snapping off an unhittable 12-6 curve to end the game they're not thinking "yea, his arb-3 value is going to be way higher than his overstated contributions as a 9th-inning reliever so we need to trade him right now."  They think it's fun to win baseball games with good pitchers.

That's kinda harsh. 

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That's kinda harsh. 

You don't win pennants with mollycoddlers.

[eddie83]

Meanwhile the Yankees are paying Chapman, Britton and Ottavino a combined $38M a year.  

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

Meanwhile the Yankees are paying Chapman, Britton and Ottavino a combined $38M a year.  

Strategies for teams with $650M in annual revenues may not be the same as those for teams with $250M.

We better hope they're different, or we're counting on the Orioles being $400M smarter than the Yanks using the same tactics and strategies.

[wildcard]

Shawn Armstrong has 74 saves in his major and minor league career.  He comes off the IL on Sunday.  I think he is the logical choice for close for the rest of season.

I think getting cheaper is a driver in Elias decision to trading Givens and Castro.  But there is more.  I think he believe he has depth in relievers at Bowie with Hanhold and Gonzalez.  Just like he traded Milone because he had Akins to take his place.   Note that Iglesias is still with the O's with his 3M salary probably because the O's have no replacement for him.

Elias  has built a player development organization.  He  believes he can scout talent and improve that talent when he acquires it.   He claimed Lopez and  now are making changes to him that he  thinks will make Lopez successful.  Even though two other clubs have given up on him.

I am not expecting a big drop-off in the pen with Givens and Castro gone.

[Yardball85]

11 hours ago, luismatos4prez said:

8 man bullpens are the norm now with 26 man rosters.

I see the mix in 2021 being:

Locks: Harvey, Fry, Scott

Probable: Lakins, Sulser

Long Man Competition: Zimmermann, Valdez, Lopez (choose 1 or 2)

On the bubble: Phillips, Mattson, Armstrong, Tate

AAA depth: Hess, Pop, Carroll, Kline, Alvarado, etc.

I think Tate and Armstrong are more on the probable side than the bubble side.  Depending on performance the rest of the season and their offseasons, etc.  But I have been impressed with Tate especially.

[Yardball85]

7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Shawn Armstrong has 74 saves in his major and minor league career.  He comes off the IL on Sunday.  I think he is the logical choice for close for the rest of season.

I think getting cheaper is a driver in Elias decision to trading Givens and Castro.  But there is more.  I think he believe he has depth in relievers at Bowie with Hanhold and Gonzalez.  Just like he traded Milone because he had Akins to take his place.   Note that Iglesias is still with the O's with his 3M salary probably because the O's have no replacement for him.

Elias  has built a player development organization.  He  believes he can scout talent and improve that talent when he acquires it.   He claimed Lopez and  now are making changes to him that he  thinks will make Lopez successful.  Even though two other clubs have given up on him.

I am not expecting a big drop-off in the pen with Givens and Castro gone.

Fair points, but I don't think the Brewers gave up on Lopez.  They traded him and Brett Philips for Moustakas.

[interloper]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Shawn Armstrong has 74 saves in his major and minor league career.  He comes off the IL on Sunday.  I think he is the logical choice for close for the rest of season.

I think getting cheaper is a driver in Elias decision to trading Givens and Castro.  But there is more.  I think he believe he has depth in relievers at Bowie with Hanhold and Gonzalez.  Just like he traded Milone because he had Akins to take his place.   Note that Iglesias is still with the O's with his 3M salary probably because the O's have no replacement for him.

Elias  has built a player development organization.  He  believes he can scout talent and improve that talent when he acquires it.   He claimed Lopez and  now are making changes to him that he  thinks will make Lopez successful.  Even though two other clubs have given up on him.

I am not expecting a big drop-off in the pen with Givens and Castro gone.

I agree with all the bolded points here. Good stuff.

I was thinking about Hanhold today and wondering if we'd see him soon. He looked great in Spring Training, throws hard. 

The lack of a SS is the single biggest hole in the organization and you see how hard Elias is going after it in the draft and depth acquisitions. I agree that's why Iglesias stayed put - there are too many young pitchers ready to step up to suddenly weaken the team defensively at SS. 

[HowAboutThat]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I can’t remember if any of these players are injured, but like it or not, we’re going to see Carroll, Phillips, Hess, and Hanhold, get more chances. They’re on the 40 man and we need to see what to do going into the offseason. 
 

Overall, I think the pen takes a step back next year because of the longer season, rotation???, and losing Givens/Castro. 
 

That’s possible but it would delay using our pitching prospects who are MLB-ready and for whom service time manipulation is moot.

I don’t need to see Hess or Phillips or anyone like them. We’ve seen enough to know they are awful. But I do want to see Baumann and Lowther and Zimmerman and maybe even Wells.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

I agree with all the bolded points here. Good stuff.

I was thinking about Hanhold today and wondering if we'd see him soon. He looked great in Spring Training, throws hard. 

The lack of a SS is the single biggest hole in the organization and you see how hard Elias is going after it in the draft and depth acquisitions. I agree that's why Iglesias stayed put - there are too many young pitchers ready to step up to suddenly weaken the team defensively at SS. 

Valaika is no SS. I would argue that losing Iglesias To injury cost us more losses this season(3-4) than any other roster move.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Philip