Place the O's minor league infielders

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, RZNJ said:

They talk about versatility as well.  Long range, Westburg and Henderson are most likely 3B.  Didn't Grenier and Hall split time between SS and 2B at Delmarva?

Until they promoted Grenier to get Hall more time at short.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

That doesn't change the fact that they played a half season or more together and split time between 2B and SS.  I put a guess in as to how they start the season with all of those infield candidates.  I think it's reasonable.  That doesn't make it correct but it's a possibility that I can make a case for.

Sure.  I was just pointing out that they changed course in that instance.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not sure why.this sentiment to dump Norfolk is so prevalent.  It's a nice ballpark in an area worthy of a AAA team.  I guess folks just want someplace closer, which is weird since Norfolk isn't exactly far.  It's what a four hour drive from Camden?

Frederick is a great place to watch a game. The Keys are well supported and I think it’s good for the Orioles. I’d actually take Frederick over Delmarva as well. I think it’s way more likely to have fans from Frederick support the Orioles and take in a game in Baltimore than the across the bridge crowd or Norfolk that is very unlikely to attend a game at Camden Yards. IMO ...MASN will control the tv markets either way.

[Can_of_corn]

43 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Frederick is a great place to watch a game. The Keys are well supported and I think it’s good for the Orioles. I’d actually take Frederick over Delmarva as well. I think it’s way more likely to have fans from Frederick support the Orioles and take in a game in Baltimore than the across the bridge crowd or Norfolk that is very unlikely to attend a game at Camden Yards. IMO ...MASN will control the tv markets either way.

Norfolk is a great place to watch a game.

I think the number of minor league fans that go to their affiliate's major league team because of the affiliation is super small but I admit I haven't seen any numbers.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

They talk about versatility as well.  Long range, Westburg and Henderson are most likely 3B.  Didn't Grenier and Hall split time between SS and 2B at Delmarva?

They aren’t at the level of prospects as these guys are, especially Grenier.

If the thought process is that they end up as third baseman down the road, this certainly can be the way they do it.

But if they have thoughts that one or both can stay at SS, jerking around from position to position, at this stage in their development, is probably not the best thing for them.

There is also no need to do it yet.  It just means that one guy you have to be aggressive with.

[wildcard]

I HATE to say it but I think Frederick will go to the Nationals as their low A team.    

The reorganization of the minors is about providing the best facilities for the minor league players, cutting travel and saving the owners money.  Cutting some of the short season teams is part of that plan.  Cutting the NY/Penn league which Aberdeen is a part of is part of that plan.    Aberdeen would move up to a A, A+ or AA league.

The O's like every other team would end up with AAA, AA, A+, low A and Rookie teams.

Part of the changes under consideration is to break the South Atlantic league  into two low A leagues, the South Atlantic league and the Mid Atlantic league.    The South Atlantic league would be limited to the Carolina teams which would cut down on travel.  Delmarva (currently a member of the SAL) and other teams would move to the Mid Atlantic league.   

Logically I think Delmarva stays a low a team for the O's.  The facilities do not need upgrading to do that.   However, the Frederick Park has been cited as needing upgrade.  Frederick City is probably not in a position to do the upgrade because of decreased funds due to COVID.  The O's are unlikely to spend money on the upgrade.  However,  the Hagerstown team is a Nationals SAL league team that is also on the cut list.  It does not have near the fan base that Frederick has.  I can see the Nationals spending to upgrade the Frederick Park and making it a part of the Mid Atlantic League.  The Frederick fan base draws over 4.000 fans a game which is too large a base to be left un-affiliated.

I can also see the Nationals moving their AAA team to Richmond and upgrading that park.  It is currently in Fresno which does not meet the reorganization goals.  The Giants who currently has their AA team in Richmond which would move their  team west.

So that leaves the O's AA and A+ teams in either Bowie or Aberdeen.  The O's will have to make the decision but Aberdeen is farther North to match up with the Eastern league teams in terms of travel.

In this scenario the Orioles lose out.  I don't like losing the Frederick team especially to the Nationals.  But the Nationals are more likely to spend to upgrade their minor league system and this is their best opportunity to do so since they moved to Washington.

This is all speculation on my part based on what I have read about the goals of the reorganization and taking into account the O's lack of desire to spend.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I HATE to say it but I think Frederick will go to the Nationals as their low A team.    

 

You've said that before but never bothered to explain how the Nats are adding a team while everyone else is cutting teams.

You think they are going to end relationships with an extra affiliate so they can pick up Frederick?  You think they are enough of an upgrade to be worth the effort?

[NCRaven]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

You've said that before but never bothered to explain how the Nats are adding a team while everyone else is cutting teams.

You think they are going to end relationships with an extra affiliate so they can pick up Frederick?  You think they are enough of an upgrade to be worth the effort?

The Nats will certainly lose Hagerstown.  It's a quaint but otherwise outdated and shabby facility.  So one of their full season teams will move from Hagerstown to....?  Why not Frederick.  I assume that they will also lose the Auburn Doubledays of the New York Penn League, their short season affiliate, just as the O's will lose the NYPL affiliate in Aberdeen (probably to be replaced by another full season team).

[wildcard]

55 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

The Nats will certainly lose Hagerstown.  It's a quaint but otherwise outdated and shabby facility.  So one of their full season teams will move from Hagerstown to....?  Why not Frederick.  I assume that they will also lose the Auburn Doubledays of the New York Penn League, their short season affiliate, just as the O's will lose the NYPL affiliate in Aberdeen (probably to be replaced by another full season team).

Exactly my thinking.   

Is it worth it?  In 2019 Hagerstown averaged 918 fans per game.  That is 151th in the minor leagues.   Frederick drew an average of 4392 in 2019 .  That is 57th.  Frederick led the Carolina League in attendance.

https://ballparkdigest.com/2019/09/09/2019-affiliated-attendance-by-average/

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Exactly my thinking.   

Is it worth it?  In 2019 Hagerstown averaged 918 fans per game.  That is 151th in the minor leagues.   Frederick drew an average of 4392 in 2019 .  That is 57th.

https://ballparkdigest.com/2019/09/09/2019-affiliated-attendance-by-average/

I don't think ML teams care overmuch if their farm team draws a thousand or four thousand.

[survivedc]

33 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think ML teams care overmuch if their farm team draws a thousand or four thousand.

Maybe not but all things being equal they’d pick the location with better fan support. Fans are good for players psyche, an underrated component of performance.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, survivedc said:

Maybe not but all things being equal they’d pick the location with better fan support. Fans are good for players psyche, an underrated component of performance.

I think that if all things are equal you don't bother changing things.

[wildcard]

All things are not equal.  If you have ever been to Hagerstown's Park you would know.  I went in 2019 to see Rodriguez  pitch.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, survivedc said:

Maybe not but all things being equal they’d pick the location with better fan support. Fans are good for players psyche, an underrated component of performance.

So if that's true, does it mean that the overall level of performance in the Majors this year was off significantly because of the lack of fans?  And I guess that it affects hitting, pitching, and fielding equally since there didn't appear to be any difference in outcomes when comparing 2019 and 2020.

[DrungoHazewood]

57 minutes ago, wildcard said:

All things are not equal.  If you have ever been to Hagerstown's Park you would know.  I went in 2019 to see Rodriguez  pitch.

Do players play better or develop faster if they're playing home games in better facilities?  Or are they more motivated to be promoted if they know the next step will feature better conditions?  Or, like most intangibles, there is no measurable impact at all and we just have this general feeling that new facilities are better than old ones?