Jose Iglesias traded to Angels.

[Orioles0615]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

“There will come a time when we flip the switch to maximizing wins, but it’s our judgment that we’re not there yet. This is not fun to subtract from your major league team, but that’s what you do when you’re below .500 and rebuilding and we still are.”   https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2020/12/elias-discusses-todays-activity.html

Hopefully that time is December of 2021 because every time I look at the FA list my mouth waters

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I'm sure anyone is available at the right price.  Santander has some trade value now but it could potentially be much higher after this season.  The risk is that he could lose value as well.  However,  I think it's not high enough now, to not take the risk of seeing how much higher it could get.

I can see that.  For me, it depends on the deal.  Because he’s cheap, there are a lot of contenders that could use him who are otherwise spending a lot of money on other things..Atlanta and Houston are two examples that come to mind.

Houston has multiple third base prospects rates highly in their system that are likely blocked by Bregman.  If you can get one of them, I would move Santander now.

I would definitely be shopping him.  I’m certainly not moving him for a package of players like we have seen in most of the deals Elias has made but I would certainly move him now in the right deal..and “right deal” isn’t defined as “we have to rape the other team to move him”.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

I can see that.  For me, it depends on the deal.  Because he’s cheap, there are a lot of contenders that could use him who are otherwise spending a lot of money on other things..Atlanta and Houston are two examples that come to mind.

Houston has multiple third base prospects rates highly in their system that are likely blocked by Bregman.  If you can get one of them, I would move Santander now.

I would definitely be shopping him.  I’m certainly not moving him for a package of players like we have seen in most of the deals Elias has made but I would certainly move him now in the right deal..and “right deal” isn’t defined as “we have to rape the other team to move him”.

If you were the GM of a different team, what would you give to get Santander?  And do you view him as a piece you absolutely have to have?

 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I can see that.  For me, it depends on the deal.  Because he’s cheap, there are a lot of contenders that could use him who are otherwise spending a lot of money on other things..Atlanta and Houston are two examples that come to mind.

Houston has multiple third base prospects rates highly in their system that are likely blocked by Bregman.  If you can get one of them, I would move Santander now.

I would definitely be shopping him.  I’m certainly not moving him for a package of players like we have seen in most of the deals Elias has made but I would certainly move him now in the right deal..and “right deal” isn’t defined as “we have to rape the other team to move him”.

Indians.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

If you were the GM of a different team, what would you give to get Santander?  And do you view him as a piece you absolutely have to have?

 

I don’t know.  I feel Santander is an 800ish OPS guy and has the ability to be more than that. 
 

Im not worried about his on field performance.  It’s the injuries that hold me back on how much I would give for him and that is why, as RZ said, waiting another year, could be the smarter thing to do.

The thing is, this is an unusual time where teams will be looking to save more money than normal, so the idea that they can obtain an OF with a good bat and a decent glove making no money could be appealing to teams..and Santander does have a ceiling that is higher than his current output.

I think it really depends on your individual situation, where you are as an organization and how deep your MiL system is.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Indians.

Yep...they are definitely another team.

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t know.  I feel Santander is an 800ish OPS guy and has the ability to be more than that. 
 

Im not worried about his on field performance.  It’s the injuries that hold me back on how much I would give for him and that is why, as RZ said, waiting another year, could be the smarter thing to do.

The thing is, this is an unusual time where teams will be looking to save more money than normal, so the idea that they can obtain an OF with a good bat and a decent glove making no money could be appealing to teams..and Santander does have a ceiling that is higher than his current output.

I think it really depends on your individual situation, where you are as an organization and how deep your MiL system is.

Fair enough and I don't disagree.  FWIW, I'm fine with anyone/everyone being traded on this roster, maybe except Mountcastle.  But even if he was packaged with others for a good return, I'd be fine with it.

[fansince71]

As TK would say, we are two years away from being 3 years away. 

[hoosiers]

Couple thoughts:

 - this is a Houston Astros style rebuild in that any current asset that does not project to be on our next competitive team will be traded for any asset that might.

 - this is what good GMs do, sign a defensively competent shortshop for his age 30 season who has produced less than 1.5 WAR in three of the prior five seasons and hope for a good year and then deal that player for prospects

 - it has been quite evident to me, and I have posted here, that we are not serious about competing in the best possible manner in 2021.  This was especially evident to me when we signed guys like Milone and did not promote prospects like Mountcastle, Kremer and others earlier.

 - the offseason is far from over and I have faith that Elias will find a competent player at SS.  Given the emergence of Henderson and the strong early reports on Westburg, I doubt we invest too heavily in a young SS or SS prospect.  Hopefully, one of those two guys will be ready in 2023 - early 2023.

 - as Elias is quoted by Frobby, the Orioles are still in a phase of acquiring prospects and not maximizing wins at the major league level.  That puts our priorities at developing prospects, trying out prospects at the major league level and earning relatively high draft slots.  Still, last year, we did sign Iggy and that should signal to people that Elias can make efforts to shore up major deficiencies on the major league team that does not block any ml-ready players.  I agree with Elias assessment of where our front office focus should be.  Teams in this phase do shed payroll.  However, I do not believe any moves we have seen, including this one, pertain to the actual ability of the club to "afford" that payroll.

 - the more important question for me as the next year plays out is how much major league experience will our guys get and how ready are they to produce in 2021 such that our front office may decide we will be ready in 2022 to invest in key free agents to compete more in that year.

[eddie83]

9 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I totally agree but trading Iglesias doesn’t really change the record.  I would rather have the players we got than Iglesias.

But that’s not really the point and it was my big issue with the Nunez decision.  At some point, they need to start winning games.  Zero issue with the tear down and the initial tanking but I have an issue with it now.  And here’s the thing that really gets me..they can hide behind this covid stuff all they want but if Covid happens, I still think they make decisions like the ones they made today.  Im not saying covid didn’t hurt them, it obviously did.. but it’s not like they were jumping up the payroll this year anyway.

Now, all of that being said, I like the team we should have out there.  I hope Elias makes a deal for a young third baseman.  There are players out there and we have some depth to make a move.  No need to be lazy with that position.  We may have some guys for third base but that’s up in the air now.  But this team is all about the young players getting better and that would be the case whether Iglesias or Alberto or whoever is here.

I can justify the Nunez decision with who is on the roster. Letting him leave gives more at bats the first half of the year for Stewart and Mullins. At some point Diaz should be up. So for a team not contending I get that. It provides opportunities for other players. 
 

The infield on the other hand is different. Clearly Sanchez has some value and you can argue better value than Alberto. They basically saved what $5/6M at most with their moves?  SS and 3rd are holes and we had a short term answer in Iglesias. I would have been fine in a perfect world considering how little Sanchez is making to keep all 3 of Sanchez, Iglesias and Alberto. Could have played Alberto at 3rd some.  
 

Have to see what Elias does rest of offseason. The available SS this year are brutal. Big picture it doesn’t hurt that much but it doesn’t make it ok. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

Couple thoughts:

 - this is a Houston Astros style rebuild in that any current asset that does not project to be on our next competitive team will be traded for any asset that might.

 

At this point in the original Astros' style rebuild were the Astros still tearing down? 

Astro payroll in 2013- 22M

Astro payroll in 2014- 44M.

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

Couple thoughts:

 - this is a Houston Astros style rebuild in that any current asset that does not project to be on our next competitive team will be traded for any asset that might.

 - this is what good GMs do, sign a defensively competent shortshop for his age 30 season who has produced less than 1.5 WAR in three of the prior five seasons and hope for a good year and then deal that player for prospects

 - it has been quite evident to me, and I have posted here, that we are not serious about competing in the best possible manner in 2021.  This was especially evident to me when we signed guys like Milone and did not promote prospects like Mountcastle, Kremer and others earlier.

 - the offseason is far from over and I have faith that Elias will find a competent player at SS.  Given the emergence of Henderson and the strong early reports on Westburg, I doubt we invest too heavily in a young SS or SS prospect.  Hopefully, one of those two guys will be ready in 2023 - early 2023.

 - as Elias is quoted by Frobby, the Orioles are still in a phase of acquiring prospects and not maximizing wins at the major league level.  That puts our priorities at developing prospects, trying out prospects at the major league level and earning relatively high draft slots.  Still, last year, we did sign Iggy and that should signal to people that Elias can make efforts to shore up major deficiencies on the major league team that does not block any ml-ready players.  I agree with Elias assessment of where our front office focus should be.  Teams in this phase do shed payroll.  However, I do not believe any moves we have seen, including this one, pertain to the actual ability of the club to "afford" that payroll.

 - the more important question for me as the next year plays out is how much major league experience will our guys get and how ready are they to produce in 2021 such that our front office may decide we will be ready in 2022 to invest in key free agents to compete more in that year.

I get all of this but I think these moves were made to save money. That is the priority.  
 

I don’t have any issue with not signing pitching right now. Now is the time to give opportunities to the young arms before GRod and Hall are here.  Same thing with the pen. No need to spend there. We know who our catcher is down the road and we have a ton of OF’s to give chances too. Mancini for now holds down one of the 1B/DH spots. Sanchez will be fine defensively. I know it not the most important thing in the world but Alberto and Iglesias have some personality and even during a rebuild make it easier as a fan to get thru the season on a day to day basis. Not like these guys had $10M options.  

[Sports Guy]

I personally think this is going to be an exciting season.  I felt that way heading into last year (well the real last year, not the bs we ended up having).

I like the potential of the players we have.  I like the idea that we should see Diaz and Adley this year.  I like that the pitching should continue to improve.  There is a lot to enjoy on this team.  Losing Iglesias doesn’t even move the needle for me when it comes to that. Like I said, I would rather have traded him for what we did than keep him.  
 

My issue is more about why they traded him and the why, despite what Elias says, isn’t to stack up inventory.  It’s because they are being cheap.  That’s my issue.

[eddie83]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

At this point in the original Astros' style rebuild were the Astros still tearing down? 

Astro payroll in 2013- 22M

Astro payroll in 2014- 44M.

Cobb is done after this year. I doubt Severino will be paid arbitration in 2022. Same with Armstrong and Valaika.  
 

Other than Mancini - and that is not a lock- I can’t see anyone making more than $2/3M on the team next year other than the one and only Chris Davis. 

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I personally think this is going to be an exciting season.  I felt that way heading into last year (well the real last year, not the bs we ended up having).

I like the potential of the players we have.  I like the idea that we should see Diaz and Adley this year.  I like that the pitching should continue to improve.  There is a lot to enjoy on this team.  Losing Iglesias doesn’t even move the needle for me when it comes to that. Like I said, I would rather have traded him for what we did than keep him.  
 

My issue is more about why they traded him and the why, despite what Elias says, isn’t to stack up inventory.  It’s because they are being cheap.  That’s my issue.

You really think we see Adley? I just don’t see that happening. Especially since they are pinching pennies and they kept Severino.