Jose Iglesias traded to Angels.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I mean that’s fine and I’m not saying you are wrong in thinking that but the Os aren’t wrong in thinking the opposite either.

Plus, having the extra year of service time is obviously something they should have done.

I don't think it is obvious at all when talking about a fringe top 100 guy.

[eddie83]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Pirates are poorly ran and cheap.

Pirates didn’t start losing though because they are cheap, their talent fell apart and they had no one in system to replace. Somewhat similar to Orioles when the core of the 2012-16 teams other than Manny aged out. 
 

Pirates are cheap, not denying that.  

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think it is obvious at all when talking about a fringe top 100 guy.

Where he is ranked On a prospect list is meaningless.  He has value to this organization as a good bat for the next several years.  Gaining the extra service time is the intelligent thing to do.  

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Where he is ranked On a prospect list is meaningless.  He has value to this organization as a good bat for the next several years.  Gaining the extra service time is the intelligent thing to do.  

I've been over this a bunch.  The odds of fringe top 100 RH LF/1B/DH being worth arb 4 prices seven years from now is pretty darn remote.  I think playing service time games in those situations is a waste of energy. If you think he's a long term piece, extend him early.

[Sports Guy]

42 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I've been over this a bunch.  The odds of fringe top 100 RH LF/1B/DH being worth arb 4 prices seven years from now is pretty darn remote.  I think playing service time games in those situations is a waste of energy. If you think he's a long term piece, extend him early.

Again, you are too wrapped up in the prospect rankings.  They mean nothing.

[jerios55]

12 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Looks like Elias plans to tank for another year. I was really hoping for a transition year where the young pitchers get a good defense behind them and they see how things go. They do not have an adequate everyday SS for the major leagues now.

Elias must have really liked the Angels 2019 draft because that's their third draft pick they've acquired from the draft. 

Pinto is a 5-11 right-handed pitcher. Unless he's the next Pedro Martinez, I'm not too thrilled with 5-11 right-handers generally.

Pretty clear Elias feels no pressure for his major league team to win at all. 

I was really hoping you meant he had a crazy submarine motion, until I saw the Pedro mention.  Height, boo.  Haha

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Again, you are too wrapped up in the prospect rankings.  They mean nothing.

I'm not too much caught up in anything. 

How many right handed LF/1B/DH types can you remember being worth paying arb 4 prices for?  Do any of them have the questions concerning plate discipline that Mountcastle has?

You are too wrapped up in squeezing the tiniest little bit of advantage that you don't realize how unlikely it is to actually be an advantage.

 

[Tony-OH]

11 hours ago, owknows said:

Sanchez and Valaika are as good defensively as Iglesias and Alberto

Let's just say I disagree, especially on Sanchez at SS. Iglesias is one of the best defensive shortstops in the game still. Sanchez has under 100 innings of experience at SS in the major leagues.

[Tony-OH]

11 hours ago, scOtt said:

I kind of agree with all this, and partially disagree... but this does show Elias is in charge. Has free reign (besides Davis...)

So if two Lottery Tix for Jose works for Mike, tank 2021 for another high pick, In Elias We Trust.

Does it, or is his given budget requiring him to make these decisions?

[Tony-OH]

11 hours ago, Frobby said:

“There will come a time when we flip the switch to maximizing wins, but it’s our judgment that we’re not there yet. This is not fun to subtract from your major league team, but that’s what you do when you’re below .500 and rebuilding and we still are.”   https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2020/12/elias-discusses-todays-activity.html

In other words, "I don't care about wining yet."

[owknows]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Does it, or is his given budget requiring him to make these decisions?

I would find this a more palatable assertion if they had not already coughed up the money to sign Iglesias.

They signed him... then got an offer and traded him.

I can understand these circumstances being evidence for stalling the turnaround for another year, and I'm not thrilled about that...

But I don't understand how this is evidence of budget constraint, given that they signed him already.

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, owknows said:

I would find this a more palatable assertion if they had not already coughed up the money to sign Iglesias.

They signed him... then got an offer and traded him.

I can understand these circumstances being evidence for stalling the turnaround for another year, and I'm not thrilled about that...

But I don't understand how this is evidence of budget constraint, given that they signed him already.

 

They had three choices.

1. Pick up his option and play him.  That would cost them 3.5M
2. Decline his option.  That would cost them .5M
3. Pick up his option and trade him.  That would cost them nothing.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

You have spending for the sake of spending and you have trading Iglesias to save a few million when they don't appear to have a replacement.  I don't think anyone would consider retaining Iglesias spending to spend.

This. The only way to spin this in a good way is if Elias really thinks that much of the 5th round pick guy and the 5-foot-11 DSL pitcher. For me, this was just another penny pinching move that hurts the team in 2021, particularly their up the middle defense which is important while developing young pitchers. 

[owknows]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

They had three choices.

1. Pick up his option and play him.  That would cost them 3.5M
2. Decline his option.  That would cost them .5M
3. Pick up his option and trade him.  That would cost them nothing.

Yeah... I'm with ya.  Makes sense.

I guess I was talking as much about the initial signing... 

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, owknows said:

Yeah... I'm with ya.  Makes sense.

I guess I was talking as much about the initial signing... 

 

It's possible that ownership tightened the purse strings even more after last year.