Orioles Lose Zach Pop and Grey Fenter in Rule Five

[BRobinsonfan]

On 12/10/2020 at 12:47 PM, TommyPickles said:

I always thought Zach Pop had a great name for a baseball player...

Is that you OldFan? 

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, scOtt said:

And then they have to keep him all next year, which is still just as UNlikely as any Rule V.

Don’t think so.   They can finish up his 90 days, then send him to the minors.    That’s what we did with Santander:

2017 - started the year on the DL, then did a minor league rehab from July 27 to August 17, then was on the O’s from Aug. 18-Sept. 30.  Got 44 days of service.

2018 - played 46 days for the O’s, then got sent to the minors.

 

[scOtt]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Don’t think so.   They can finish up his 90 days, then send him to the minors.    That’s what we did with Santander:

2017 - started the year on the DL, then did a minor league rehab from July 27 to August 17, then was on the O’s from Aug. 18-Sept. 30.  Got 44 days of service.

2018 - played 46 days for the O’s, then got sent to the minors.

 

I didn't know September time counted.

[Frobby]

15 minutes ago, scOtt said:

I didn't know September time counted.

The service time rules are so convoluted.   September time does not count against the 45 days you can play in the majors before losing rookie status.    But it counts for this purpose, and it also counts when calculating service time for free agency/Super 2 status.   Go figure.   

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, MCO'sFan said:

As I said when he was drafted and then traded to the Marlins... Zach Pop isn't coming back. I think the decision to keep him over some who have little to no chance of helping this team when it becomes competitive was wrong. It was a silly gamble and it didn't work. 

Why do you think he's not coming back when he hasn't pitched? Even if they IL him, they still need him on the active roster for most of the year to keep him without it rolling over to next year. All they would be doing is pushing off his major league time until another year. Now they could try and do what the Orioles did with Santander and try to squeeze out an extra year by ILing him and then putting him on rehab, but I don't see them do that with Pop.

[MCO'sFan]

15 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Why do you think he's not coming back when he hasn't pitched? Even if they IL him, they still need him on the active roster for most of the year to keep him without it rolling over to next year. All they would be doing is pushing off his major league time until another year. Now they could try and do what the Orioles did with Santander and try to squeeze out an extra year by ILing him and then putting him on rehab, but I don't see them do that with Pop.

Thanks for asking. First I think that he is going to be a ML quality reliever and he will pitch his way to staying on their roster. I would also say that the fact that they traded for him means that there is a higher likelihood that they keep him. No guarantee of course (perhaps they simply traded the cash equivalent of the draft fee). But, It seems that they were high enough on him to workout a deal so it is not just a flier on their part.  The fact that they appear to be looking to stash him for a while seems to me to be an indicator that they are willing to be creative to keep him. I certainly could be wrong but I have been pretty consistent in my opinion of him and his potential which is the main reason I think he is gone. 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, MCO'sFan said:

Thanks for asking. First I think that he is going to be a ML quality reliever and he will pitch his way to staying on their roster. I would also say that the fact that they traded for him means that there is a higher likelihood that they keep him. No guarantee of course (perhaps they simply traded the cash equivalent of the draft fee). But, It seems that they were high enough on him to workout a deal so it is not just a flier on their part.  The fact that they appear to be looking to stash him for a while seems to me to be an indicator that they are willing to be creative to keep him. I certainly could be wrong but I have been pretty consistent in my opinion of him and his potential which is the main reason I think he is gone. 

I like Pop a bit as well as we had him as the #23 prospect after the 2019 season. 

Saying that, I just don't see them stashing Pop anywhere and if he's injured, he's probably coming back. By Pop's own words he was ready to pitch last summer so it should have nothing to do with his TJ surgery back in 2019. 

As for trading for him, lots of teams have done that during the Rule 5 draft and the player to be named later is usually a Jack Zoellner type or ends up "future considerations." 

We'll see I guess, but if I were a betting man, Pop will be back returned to the Orioles organization at some point. 

 

[Frobby]

For what it’s worth, the Marlins’ other Rule 5 guy hasn’t pitched yet either.    

[MCO'sFan]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I like Pop a bit as well as we had him as the #23 prospect after the 2019 season. 

Saying that, I just don't see them stashing Pop anywhere and if he's injured, he's probably coming back. By Pop's own words he was ready to pitch last summer so it should have nothing to do with his TJ surgery back in 2019. 

As for trading for him, lots of teams have done that during the Rule 5 draft and the player to be named later is usually a Jack Zoellner type or ends up "future considerations." 

We'll see I guess, but if I were a betting man, Pop will be back returned to the Orioles organization at some point. 

 

I hope you're right. It's just a feeling I've had since he was taken. 

[LookinUp]

1 hour ago, MCO'sFan said:

I hope you're right. It's just a feeling I've had since he was taken. 

A lot of people had that feeling, but he was made available for a reason. Doesn't mean it was smart, but he wasn't protected for some reason.

[Dale]

Here is a Fenter-centric  description of the waiver process for Rule 5 draft picks from The Cub reporter's lead writer Arizona Phil.  I haven't found any commentator who believes the Cubs will keep Fenter who hasn't played above low-A ball.  He is probably about 25th on the Cubs pitching depth chart. I could list the 24 ahead of him if you're interested! 

https://www.thecubreporter.com/comment/269044#comment-269044

"Outright Assignment Waivers can be requested on Rule 5 draft picks (technically they are called Rule 6 Selected Players, because Rule 6 deals with the aftermath of Rule 5) no earlier than 25 days prior to MLB Opening Day (which was this past Sunday), and a Rule 6 Selected Player can be outrighted to the minors (either back to the minor league club from which he was selected if the player's former organization reclaims the player, or to a minor league affilliate of the selecting club if the player's former club declines to re-claim the player) no earlier than 20 days prior to MLB Opening Day (which is this coming Friday). 

The player's former club has 48 hours to decide whether to reclaim the player once Outright Assignment Waivers have been secured, so if the Cubs requested Outright Assignnment Waivers on Fenter as soon as they could (let's say this past Sunday or Monday) and he cleared his waiver ride yesterday or today without being claimed, then the Orioles would have until tomorrow or Friday to decide whether to reclaim him, at which point either the Orioles reclaim Fenter and he is automatically sent outright to AAA Norfolk (the minor league club from which he was selected), or the Orioles decline to reclaim him and the Cubs keep him and outright him to AAA Iowa. 

It's possible a trade could be worked out with the Orioles if Outright Assignmment Waivers are secured and the Cubs want to keep Fenter but the Orioles want something back to make that happen (like maybe more $$$ and/or a player)."

 

 

[MCO'sFan]

18 hours ago, LookinUp said:

A lot of people had that feeling, but he was made available for a reason. Doesn't mean it was smart, but he wasn't protected for some reason.

No doubt and he is not a lock to reach his potential. I think the reason he was left off was ME was counting on him being passed over due to the TJ. It was two years ago and it was a silly gamble in MHO. It is not the end of the world as the O's are loaded with the relief pitcher prospect types. Just an unforced error in my opinion. They had a bit of a roster crunch this past offseason but it was nothing like the (good) problems that is coming during the next few offseasons. 

[wildcard]

7 hours ago, MCO'sFan said:

No doubt and he is not a lock to reach his potential. I think the reason he was left off was ME was counting on him being passed over due to the TJ. It was two years ago and it was a silly gamble in MHO. It is not the end of the world as the O's are loaded with the relief pitcher prospect types. Just an unforced error in my opinion. They had a bit of a roster crunch this past offseason but it was nothing like the (good) problems that is coming during the next few offseasons. 

I agree that Elias probably did not protect Pop because he thought he may not be picked with the TJ surgery and the layoff.   But I also think another factor was that he is a one inning reliever.  Elias picked two starters in the Rule 5 draft because he is looking for length.    Also in December Pop said he was throwing 92-93  nineteen months after the  surgery.    He may improve from that if he can get back to what he was before the surgery but its a gamble.  92-93 is pretty easy to find in a reliever.

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I agree that Elias probably did not protect Pop because he thought he may not be picked with he TJ surgery and the layoff.   But I also think another factor was that he is a one inning reliever.  Elias picked two starters in the Rule 5 draft because he is looking for length.    Also in December Pop said he was throwing 92-93  nineteen months again the  surgery.    He may improve from that if he can get back to what he was before the surgery but its a gamble.  92-93 is pretty easy to find in a reliever.

Yeah, this. It's one thing if the one inning reliever is Hunter Harvey and he throws 97 and was a high draft pick and you've invested a lot in getting him healthy and effective. I think ultimately Elias prioritized starter candidates and bulk innings more than a one-inning guy who is almost certain to be returned if taken. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Yeah, this. It's one thing if the one inning reliever is Hunter Harvey and he throws 97 and was a high draft pick and you've invested a lot in getting him healthy and effective. I think ultimately Elias prioritized starter candidates and bulk innings more than a one-inning guy who is almost certain to be returned if taken. 

I don't think what you have already spent on a player should be a consideration.

The issue I have with not protecting Pop is that I think Pop is a lot more likely to be an asset going forward than the players that were added.

But I don't think it's a move that going to have an outsized impact on the team.