The second guessing Hyde thread.

[Billy F-Face3]

I don't blame Hyde for our lack of offense today. That's on the individual players failing to stack together productive At Bats.

But I am growing more discontent with our 2 hitting coaches failing to help these hitters make the appropriate tweaks & adjustments to become productive again.

[paulcoates]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

And take the bat out of the hand of a guy who just homered? Against Chapman? You know Santander is gonna goof up that bunt and strike out.

Yes, I would have.  I am not sure who was on the bench to drop that bunt down (Mateo?), but Kjerstad could have went in for Santander in RF

[Moose Milligan]

30 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

You swing because it’s not a steal.  If you  don’t make contact, the runner gets thrown out…

Right.  And there's no way Hicks could have ever made contact on that ball.  

Therefore, Gunnar was getting thrown out...no matter what.

[DirtyBird]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Right.  And there's no way Hicks could have ever made contact on that ball.  

Why?

[Billy F-Face3]

Gunnar stealing was a mental error by someone who will not get thrown under the bus publicly. Whether that's Gunnar, Hyde, Sanders, or anyone else in between who sends the signals. We will never know.

But I was watching that and getting excited after Gunnar got a hit that we finally had a lead runner on base with no outs, and it made me start the cost/benefit analysis in my head about if I'd want to steal. After watching the Rangers pitcher and Jonah Heim for a few pitches, it became clear to me that you don't want to steal on those guys unless you have the speed of Mateo, and even Mateo might have been thrown out by those guys.  The pitcher was just too quick to the plate, and Heim is an All Star catcher for good reason.

[PsychoBird68]

I'm on the team that thinks we should have left Bradish in and not pinch hit for Westburg, Also Mateo should have pinch ran for Hick in the bottom of the 7th, therefore he wouldn't have been in the game to miss that run and hit sign in the 9th.... Hyde over managed early that cost us the run that beat us and the offense didn't bail him out....Side note : offense should get to use a communication system... ( no missed signs ) The defense gets a unfair advantage allowing them to call defensive plays on the pitch com and not allowing the offense to do the same 

[LA2]

2 hours ago, forphase1 said:

Yes,  some have said he gives professional at bats and usually puts the ball in play.   None of which changes the fact he's hitting .240 with a sub 700 OPS and the earlier power seems to have disappeared.  And his defense is poor.  As to clutch, well I'm not touching that one again, beyond saying it's not a repeatable 'skill'.

I don't have time to search for it, but there was a thread in which an amazing stat surfaced: that Frazier has been the best hitter in clutch situations by a large margin over the last few years.

I guess you've accepted the Hicks stats--time to accept Frazier's too, assuming you want to get more specific than the overall BA and OPS. Clearly Hyde and Elias do.

[Gurgi]

3 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

Someone needs to inform Hyde that Westburg has his best numbers against RHP. He is a slave to right/left matchups and ignores all the reverse splits.

Hyde just does what the stat geeks tell him to do. 

[forphase1]

2 minutes ago, LA2 said:

I don't have time to search for it, but there was a thread in which an amazing stat surfaced: that Frazier has been the best hitter in clutch situations by a large margin over the last few years.

I guess you've accepted the Hicks stats--time to accept Frazier's too, assuming you want to get more specific than the overall BA and OPS. Clearly Hyde and Elias do.

We've had the conversation about clutch many, many times.  Some believe it exists.  Some don't.  I happen to be one of those who doesn't buy into it.  No real reason to rehash it again.  Regardless of whether you believe it exists or not, Frazier was certainly NOT 'clutch' today.  Nor did Hicks get a needed hit in the 9th, regardless of how he's hit so far this year with the Os.  As I stated in another thread, while Hicks has good numbers with us, I still don't trust him in that situation to make something positive happen.  

Not putting all the blame on them of course, as all the offense let us down.  My point was simple in the game thread that when our 3 batters coming up was Gunner, Hicks and Frazier, I wasn't filled with much confidence as I didn't expect Hicks or Frazier to do anything.  And they didn't.  I'd much rather have been wrong.

[Hank Scorpio]

4 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

Hyde just does what the stat geeks tell him to do. 

In Westburg’s only at bat he smoked one 106 that if he had hit it in the 6th or 7th inning probably would have left the park. 

This left/right matchup obsession is silly, especially when you’re replacing a better player with a lesser one. Westburg is a far superior player to Frazier, especially defensively.

[forphase1]

5 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

Hyde just does what the stat geeks tell him to do. 

Maybe, but I'm not sure.  You'd think in some of his moves the 'stat geeks' would go the other way, like in reverse splits situaitons.  But it sometimes seems to be a very simple lefty versus righty type thinking, regardless of what the underlying stats might say.

[SteveA]

3 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Do you disagree with O'Hearn pinch hitting for Urias? Holding Mateo back enabled that move. 

If he hadn't made the super early yank of Westburg for Frazier, he could have pinch hit for Urias without having to use Mateo.

It all stems from that 4th inning (!) pinch hit.   That's way to early to start doing stuff like that.

Baltimore Sun on line has an aarticle, the gist of which is that Hyde made pushed the same buttons he did during the regular season but they didn't work tonight.

I don't think that is true in the case if the Frazier for Westburg move... did he EVER make a platoon like that as early as the 4th inning during the season?   I don't think so.   I think he panicked and over managed in that situation.   It was too early.   Not only didn't it pay off in the 4th, which is not a big deal because even a good hitter has over a 60% chance of getting out.   But it led to Frazier batting vs a lefty next time out, and it led to having to use Mateo for defense when he made the appropriate O'Hearn for Urias move later.

[Sports Guy]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/38596288/orioles-manager-calls-steal-attempt-9th-miscommunication

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, PsychoBird68 said:

I'm on the team that thinks we should have left Bradish in and not pinch hit for Westburg, Also Mateo should have pinch ran for Hick in the bottom of the 7th, therefore he wouldn't have been in the game to miss that run and hit sign in the 9th.... Hyde over managed early that cost us the run that beat us and the offense didn't bail him out....Side note : offense should get to use a communication system... ( no missed signs ) The defense gets a unfair advantage allowing them to call defensive plays on the pitch com and not allowing the offense to do the same 

I agree with you pulling Bradish and PHing Frazier were bad moves, but I don't think it's fair to say they cost us the game. Giving up three runs to the Rangers should give you a pretty good chance to win.  And Frazier's gotten some big hits.  On Mateo, I'm guessing that the Orioles were not confident about his success stealing second against Heim.

[PsychoBird68]

13 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I agree with you pulling Bradish and PHing Frazier were bad moves, but I don't think it's fair to say they cost us the game. Giving up three runs to the Rangers should give you a pretty good chance to win.  And Frazier's gotten some big hits.  On Mateo, I'm guessing that the Orioles were not confident about his success stealing second against Heim.

I never said them moves cost us the game, of course they didn't help and like I said the offense didn't bail Hyde out by scoring some runs and help cover up his mistake.... Yes Frazier has gotten some big hits and I've been a big supporter of him but Westburg has gotten a few big hits also with limited chances and had hard contact his first Ab... You bring in Mateo in that situation because of his speed even if your not confident of him stealing a base, he can score on a double, he also puts a lot more pressure on the defense and pitcher