Here comes Texas!

[interloper]

10 hours ago, SteveA said:

Do people still play these silly games?   Rooting for the Orioles to lose so we can get a higher pick?

I mean last year when things started going bad in late August, people were saying "Tank for Kumar!".   We ended up picking 5th, could have had Kumar, and didn't even take him.   Don't those people feel kind of foolish now?

I'm enjoying the recent wins by the Os but I certainly won't be mad if we end up with the #1 pick. Both are fun. I'm not actively rooting for losses though.

[Bmorebirds24]

4 hours ago, interloper said:

I'm enjoying the recent wins by the Os but I certainly won't be mad if we end up with the #1 pick. Both are fun. I'm not actively rooting for losses though.

I’m with you. If we get the 1.1 pick, great! 
If not then so be it and let’s enjoy some competitive, Orioles baseball. 

[Ruzious]

No matter what their record is, I hate losing and always want to win.  

[Three Run Homer]

I want the O's to win as many games as possible for the rest of the season, as long as their winning is being driven by good performance from Hays, Mountcastle, Urias and other relatively young players.  I'm not too excited to see the O's lose draft position because Maikel Franco and Pat Valaika go on a tear.     

[JR Oriole]

I root for us to win every game.  The losing is really old at this point and it is terrible for morale and the confidence of young players to lose so much.  Winning environments make everyone better.  Look at the Mariners and Giants....two teams with completely mediocre rosters picked to finish near the bottom of their divisions and they are both doing really well.  That has to be a better environment for young players than a clubhouse where you lose 2 out of every 3 games.   

I am not sure that draft positioning matters as much for our organization.  Would we even take the 2nd or 3rd best player if we had that pick to make?  Recent history indicates no.  And I am pretty sure the HOF consists of many players who were not the number 1 or 2 overall pick in their respective draft years.  

[spiritof66]

I am right in line with those who want to see the Orioles win as many games as they can this year, and even better if those wins come with big contributions from those who are counted on to be, or can build a case to be, part if a winning Oriole team a couple of years from now.

I don't doubt for a minute that every player who has worn an Orioles uniform in 2021 has tried his best to make the team succeed. I have the same certainty about Hyde and the coaches. The problem I have is with Elias (and, I guess, John Angelos, although I don't know how involved he is in implementing the Orioles' rebuilding strategy, including the extreme stinginess in building this season's roster).

Elias is the executive v.p. and general manager of the Baltimore Orioles. It's customary -- insulting to the fans, and probably unwise -- for general managers to say little about the team or their plans, and to let the manager do the talking. Elias largely follows that model; he rarely speaks, and when he does he discloses very little. But it sure seems that he doesn't have any interest in how the team he was hired to lead -- his team -- plays this year. Does he go to Orioles games? Does he watch them on TV? It wouldn't surprise me if he does neither. I suspect that if he worked for me, and the facts were available to me, I would conclude he had badly neglected one part of his job.

I don't think Elias gives a damn whether the Orioles win 40 or 50 or 60 games this year, and his actions have given lots of observers reason to believe, or take as a serious possibility, that those moves reflect a goal of having the Orioles win fewer games to get an earlier draft pick. (If that were true, and it's almost inconceivable that we'll ever know, I think Elias should be fired and perhaps barred from baseball.) I sure don't think he cares, if he even knows, about how his rebuilding strategy has discouraged fans and led to terrible attendance (fifth worst in MLB if you ignore Toronto, ahead of only the Florida teams, Oakland and Pittsburgh). I wish he would make some effort to show that he cares about his team's performance as much as the Orioles' players and remaining fans do.

[Il BuonO]

22 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I don't think Elias gives a damn whether the Orioles win 40 or 50 or 60 games this year, and his actions have given lots of observers reason to believe, or take as a serious possibility, that those moves reflect a goal of having the Orioles win fewer games to get an earlier draft pick. (If that were true, and it's almost inconceivable that we'll ever know, I think Elias should be fired and perhaps barred from baseball.) I sure don't think he cares, if he even knows, about how his rebuilding strategy has discouraged fans and led to terrible attendance (fifth worst in MLB if you ignore Toronto, ahead of only the Florida teams, Oakland and Pittsburgh). 

So, you admit that it’s unknowable, but Elias should be barred from baseball because you have a hunch?

[7Mo]

1 hour ago, spiritof66 said:

I am right in line with those who want to see the Orioles win as many games as they can this year, and even better if those wins come with big contributions from those who are counted on to be, or can build a case to be, part if a winning Oriole team a couple of years from now.

I don't doubt for a minute that every player who has worn an Orioles uniform in 2021 has tried his best to make the team succeed. I have the same certainty about Hyde and the coaches. The problem I have is with Elias (and, I guess, John Angelos, although I don't know how involved he is in implementing the Orioles' rebuilding strategy, including the extreme stinginess in building this season's roster).

Elias is the executive v.p. and general manager of the Baltimore Orioles. It's customary -- insulting to the fans, and probably unwise -- for general managers to say little about the team or their plans, and to let the manager do the talking. Elias largely follows that model; he rarely speaks, and when he does he discloses very little. But it sure seems that he doesn't have any interest in how the team he was hired to lead -- his team -- plays this year. Does he go to Orioles games? Does he watch them on TV? It wouldn't surprise me if he does neither. I suspect that if he worked for me, and the facts were available to me, I would conclude he had badly neglected one part of his job.

I don't think Elias gives a damn whether the Orioles win 40 or 50 or 60 games this year, and his actions have given lots of observers reason to believe, or take as a serious possibility, that those moves reflect a goal of having the Orioles win fewer games to get an earlier draft pick. (If that were true, and it's almost inconceivable that we'll ever know, I think Elias should be fired and perhaps barred from baseball.) I sure don't think he cares, if he even knows, about how his rebuilding strategy has discouraged fans and led to terrible attendance (fifth worst in MLB if you ignore Toronto, ahead of only the Florida teams, Oakland and Pittsburgh). I wish he would make some effort to show that he cares about his team's performance as much as the Orioles' players and remaining fans do.

He's been clear from the day he was hired what the plan was. It's inconceivable that ownership was not 100% on board or they would not have hired him. 

I understand that you want the major league team to win. However, if you're not aware of what progress has been made, what changes have been implemented, and how much work has been done, then you're not paying attention. 

Probably any one hired as a GM would take a somewhat different route, in some way. Maybe a different draft pick, maybe more emphasis on pitching early, maybe different trades or free agent signings. 

The O's finally have a clear plan in place. That plan has not placed emphasis on major league success to date. It focuses on obtaining a pipeline of young talent at the minor league level. That is being done. 

Thanks for sharing what you would do. A different plan and path was chosen. And it's not changing tomorrow or next week or next month. Hopefully the emphasis changes in a big way, based on progress that is being made now, today, next week, and next month... for the '23 season. But I wouldn't expect it until then.

[spiritof66]

11 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

So, you admit that it’s unknowable, but Elias should be barred from baseball because you have a hunch?

Not what I said, not at all. What I said is that if it turned out that, somehow, it became known that Elias has been and is running a major-league team with a goal of losing more games this season than any other team, I think (a) he should be fired -- just my opinion, with which I'm sure many would disagree -- and (b) "perhaps" he should be barred, depending on  the available information about what he was hired to do, how he tried to hide it, and lots of other things -- just something that I believe should be considered in the highly unlikely (what I called "almost inconceivable") circumstances I described.

[Il BuonO]

5 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

Not what I said, not at all. What I said is that if it turned out that, somehow, it became known that Elias has been and is running a major-league team with a goal of losing more games this season than any other team, I think (a) he should be fired -- just my opinion, with which I'm sure many would disagree -- and (b) "perhaps" he should be barred, depending on  the available information about what he was hired to do, how he tried to hide it, and lots of other things -- just something that I believe should be considered in the highly unlikely (what I called "almost inconceivable") circumstances I described.

Yeah, IF it were known, but you say it’s unknowable. Pretty hard to prove one way or the other.
 

With as bad as they are they’re some here that think it would be the right course.

[Frobby]

As the starter of this thread, I want to make it clear that I never root for the Orioles to lose.  I was only pointing out that it was not safe to assume we’ll finish in the bottom two.   

I’ve enjoyed the recent 6-2 streak and hope we stay hot against the Marlins.  
 

[7Mo]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

  

I’ve enjoyed the recent 6-2 streak and hope we stay hot against the Marlins.  
 

Saw a suggestion that the Marlins were looking to deal Marte and then trade for a CF'er being Byron Buxton or Cedric Mullins with pitching to deal. And they've got a boatload of young pitchers available to deal.

[Il BuonO]

32 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

Saw a suggestion that the Marlins were looking to deal Marte and then trade for a CF'er being Byron Buxton or Cedric Mullins with pitching to deal. And they've got a boatload of young pitchers available to deal.

Oh man, I’m gettin’ chills!

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

On 7/25/2021 at 12:57 PM, Frobby said:

You are really making me hope Lawlar crashes and burns.  Face it, you don’t really know who will be better between the two.   Plus, we are still waiting to see what Lawlar will cost (if he is signed at all).   

Lawlar or House, both would have been better picks. Just awful. So let me get this, a rebuilding club, in one of the toughest divisions in baseball, desperately in need of closing the gap in talent takes another corner OF over a franchise SS. Explain that to me Frobby. Fans are watching a crap product, we deserve the BPA. 

[Frobby]

44 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Lawlar or House, both would have been better picks. Just awful. So let me get this, a rebuilding club, in one of the toughest divisions in baseball, desperately in need of closing the gap in talent takes another corner OF over a franchise SS. Explain that to me Frobby. Fans are watching a crap product, we deserve the BPA. 

You have a very high opinion of your ability to evaluate talent.   I don’t have as high an opinion of mine (or frankly, yours).  It will be a very long time before we know if Lawler is a franchise SS and what kind of player Cowser is.   Not to mention whether the overslot guys we got with the dollars saved are any good or not.   Come back in 5-7 years and we can discuss it.   In the meantime I’m just going to wait to see what happens, because I’m not going to pretend that I know.