Long piece on Peter Angelos’ history

[Tony-OH]

11 hours ago, AuburnAL said:

Yes, obviously MORE people carrying guns is the answer.

 

11 hours ago, AuburnAL said:

Ouch.  You are SO unpolitical.

On here I am because of the rules we instituted so we can focus on what brings us together, the Orioles. I can tell from these two posts where you fall on the spectrum, but you know what, it doesn't matter on here. Enjoy the sight and have a Happy Holidays.

[timsulin]

On 12/24/2021 at 9:44 AM, Tony-OH said:

Trinacria on North Paca streets. Their Lasagna is really outstanding and this is coming from someone very picky about his Italian food after growing up with authentic Italian food.

 

I work there. It's a pleasure to provide you with quality food. Trinacria has been in business for over 100 years and is still owned and ran by the same family. Next time you stop in ask for Tim and say hello. Happy Holidays to you sir. 

[Tony-OH]

22 minutes ago, timsulin said:

I work there. It's a pleasure to provide you with quality food. Trinacria has been in business for over 100 years and is still owned and ran by the same family. Next time you stop in ask for Tim and say hello. Happy Holidays to you sir. 

Will do. I highly recommend your place to all. We just had the Lasagna yesterday for Christmas dinner. 

[bigjayb024]

With the on again, off again rumor that John Angelos might move the team to Nashville, I came up with an interesting idea. Don't know if this has been floated around the hangout yet because I haven't been active much in the last 7 or so years. It's not an original idea because it has happened to this fan base before with our former NFL team, but that situation work out in the worst possible way. If the younger Angelos' game plan is to ultimately move the team, why not do a franchise ownership swap with another owner who is looking to get out of his situation. Rays owner Sternberg, as we know, has had it with the poor stadium situation in St. Pete. With their dismal attendance, they still manage to put a competitive product on the field with a low budget. You'd think that Sternberg would love the prospect of owning a team with a much better ballpark, and fans who would show up knowing there would be a competitive team on the field, and the Angelos' no where near it. Then John can take the Rays to Nashville. Just my 2 cents.

Edited December 27, 2021 by bigjayb024
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[crowmst3k!]

6 hours ago, bigjayb024 said:

With the on again, off again rumor that John Angelos might move the team to Nashville, I came up with an interesting idea. Don't know if this has been floated around the hangout yet because I haven't been active much in the last 7 or so years. It's not an original idea because it has happened to this fan base before with our former NFL team, but that situation work out in the worst possible way. If the younger Angelos' game plan is to ultimately move the team, why not do a franchise ownership swap with another owner who is looking to get out of his situation. Rays owner Sternberg, as we know, has had it with the poor stadium situation in St. Pete. With their dismal attendance, they still manage to put a competitive product on the field with a low budget. You'd think that Sternberg would love the prospect of owning a team with a much better ballpark, and fans who would show up knowing there would be a competitive team on the field, and the Angelos' no where near it. Then John can take the Rays to Nashville. Just my 2 cents.

I'd take a Sternberg Orioles ownership in a second. Sternberg O's would be the beast of the east. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, crowmst3k! said:

I'd take a Sternberg Orioles ownership in a second. Sternberg O's would be the beast of the east. 

What makes you think they would do any better in Baltimore than they do in Tampa?

[SouthernBird]

If they move to Nashville you can all come stay at my place when you visit for a game. But honestly, Nashville is headed in the wrong direction.It is now a very blue city and is getting worse every day as far as crime goes. Nothing like Baltimore, but give it a decade or two.

[DrungoHazewood]

On 12/27/2021 at 5:53 PM, Can_of_corn said:

What makes you think they would do any better in Baltimore than they do in Tampa?

More resources?  As poorly as the O's have drawn recently the Rays have done worse with a (much) better team.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

More resources?  As poorly as the O's have drawn recently the Rays have done worse with a (much) better team.

Stu isn't exactly known for spending.  A slight bump in attendance isn't likely to create a "beast". 

[Sports Guy]

22 hours ago, SouthernBird said:

If they move to Nashville you can all come stay at my place when you visit for a game. But honestly, Nashville is headed in the wrong direction.It is now a very blue city and is getting worse every day as far as crime goes. Nothing like Baltimore, but give it a decade or two.

That sucks to hear.  I have wanted to visit Nashville.  Always hear how great of a party town it is.

[DrungoHazewood]

On 12/30/2021 at 10:58 AM, Can_of_corn said:

Stu isn't exactly known for spending.  A slight bump in attendance isn't likely to create a "beast". 

The difference between the Rays over the last four seasons and "beast" is small.  You could argue they're already one of the 3-4 best teams in baseball, winning about 60% of their games in a tough division. 

Although I'd say the injection of $25M or $50M a year isn't guaranteed to produce more wins.  A big part of the Rays' model is to be ruthlessly unemotional and trade or otherwise part ways with anyone who isn't providing the required ROI, including favorites like Longoria.  More money would change that calculation, and that's not always positive.  They might have chosen to pay $100M or more for Longoria's last four years of league-average production, instead of the very similar numbers they got for a grand total of less than 1/10th of that in reality.

[spiritof66]

On 12/27/2021 at 5:49 PM, crowmst3k! said:

I'd take a Sternberg Orioles ownership in a second. Sternberg O's would be the beast of the east. 

 

On 12/27/2021 at 11:16 AM, bigjayb024 said:

With the on again, off again rumor that John Angelos might move the team to Nashville, I came up with an interesting idea. Don't know if this has been floated around the hangout yet because I haven't been active much in the last 7 or so years. It's not an original idea because it has happened to this fan base before with our former NFL team, but that situation work out in the worst possible way. If the younger Angelos' game plan is to ultimately move the team, why not do a franchise ownership swap with another owner who is looking to get out of his situation. Rays owner Sternberg, as we know, has had it with the poor stadium situation in St. Pete. With their dismal attendance, they still manage to put a competitive product on the field with a low budget. You'd think that Sternberg would love the prospect of owning a team with a much better ballpark, and fans who would show up knowing there would be a competitive team on the field, and the Angelos' no where near it. Then John can take the Rays to Nashville. Just my 2 cents.

A few problems with this theory.

1. I'm pretty sure Sternberg doesn't want to own a team in Baltimore. What he wants is a team in Tampa (or, at one time, his home town of New York). I've followed the Tampa stadium situation pretty closely for a few years, and it's clear to me that all the talk about moving the Rays is calculated to put pressure on city, county and state officials to build him "a much better ballpark" in Tampa, with as much taxpayer funding and as little Sternberg funding as possible.  

2. One of the reasons Sternberg is reluctant to move is that the Rays have six years left o their lease to Tropicana Park. If that market is deserted, someone's going to have to pay for that. I don't think that prospect would appeal to either Sternberg or the Angeloses.

3. I don't think the MLB owners will approve of John and/or Lou and/or Georgia Angelos as the next owner of the Orioles. But even if they do, I can't see them approving a move by that ownership to Nashville. For all its limitations, Nashville is one of the most appealing sites for expansion. That expansion will happen after the Oakland and Tampa situations get resolved -- only because that's what MLB promised the owners of those two teams about a million years ago (more like 10-15 years ago, but it seems a lot longer ago that this started). The purpose of expansion to Nashville would be to bring a new, wealthy owner into MLB and put expansion fees into the current owners' pockets. 

Moving a team to Nashville (or to any unoccupied city at this point -- Las Vegas, Montreal, Mexico City, San Juan, Portland, San Antonio, Columbus, you name it) is fraught with the risk of failure. There's not a huge, baseball-starved metropolis starving for baseball like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Houston and Dallas have been in the past. MLB's owners and the Commissioner fear franchise failure and hate risking it. If they're going to allow a team to move to Nashville, it's going to be the A's or Rays after failure to get a new stadium deal (because it's been agreed to, not because it's necessarily a good idea) or a well-financed expansion franchise headed by an impressive leader, preferably with strong ties to the city. I can't imagine letting an Angelos -- who will be very weak financially after the payment of taxes on Peter's estate, who have little or no business experience, whose ownership would be an inheritance from a man with a record of long-term failure on and off the field (including pro-union sentiments and refusal to be a team player with the other owners), who have no meaningful local ties, and who could be Exhibit A in the money-saving tanking model that has harmed competition and infuriates the union, other owners and the Commissioner. That's not an owner or ownership group that MLB wants to face the challenge of building a successful outpost in Nashville. 

[NCRaven]

On 12/31/2021 at 12:50 PM, spiritof66 said:

A few problems with this theory...

3. I don't think the MLB owners will approve of John and/or Lou and/or Georgia Angelos as the next owner of the Orioles.

I don't believe this is based on anything other than wishful thinking.  A refusal of a transfer in ownership based on the death of the principal owner to his designated heirs would result in litigation that MLB doesn't even want to think about.

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, NCRaven said:

I don't believe this is based on anything other than wishful thinking.  A refusal of a transfer in ownership based on the death of the principal owner to his designated heirs would result in litigation that MLB doesn't even want to think about.

The MLB Constitution defines the rights and responsibilities of MLB teams and owners. It requires 75% of club owners to approve most transfers of control over a team, but only "a majority vote of all Major League Clubs shall be sufficient to approve any such sale or transfer [of control of a club] occurring upon the death of an owner to a spouse or one or more lineal descendants." That's the basis on which all the owners of MLB teams own their interests.

The owners don't have to give reasons for their votes, but I believe there would be a reasonable basis -- not that one is required -- to turn down a transfer to Angelos's widow or son(s)based on the lack of the Orioles' financial resources sufficient to weather downturns in the sport once estate taxes and inheritance are paid, including the family's lack of other significant sources of income. There's also the proposed new owners' lack of business experience and the miserable, and perhaps purposely miserable, performance of the Orioles under John's stewardship.

If a proposed transfer to Angelos's widow or son(s) doesn't get the required votes of MLB owners, what would be the basis for suing MLB or the the other owners?

[NCRaven]

The reasons given for denying the transfer are largely presumptions on your part.  As you point out, the Orioles losses over the past few years are part of a deliberate plan to be a winning team in the longer term.  It is a strategy that has been used both successfully and unsuccessfully by several other teams and other owners are not likely to hold it against the Orioles when they’ve done it themselves. 
I just think that you overstate the likelihood of MLB rejecting Mrs. Angelos or her sons as potential owners.