Colton Cowser 2022

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

 He could have determined that he was an AS level player at SS or second but perhaps not a franchise guy.  (SportsGuy)

No that was your assumption!

My assumption is that Elias didn't think Lawlar was special, didn't think he was a future all-star SS, and passed.

 

Sorry, I was thinking the franchise level player you kept throwing out.  And the whole comment about a “sure thing” .  No way he thinks any player is a sure thing.

And that’s a fair assumption as well.  I disagree with it but I don’t think it’s some crazy thought either.

[EdwinRip]

However this discussion is 100% based on results.  If Lawler was under performing, this discussion doesn’t happen.  Austin Martin was the consensus BPA in 2020.  I don’t here many complaining now about us not taking him with his sub 700 ops in AA. The BPA is not the same for every club.  If it is a very close call, many times a tie breaker will be $.

[RZNJ]

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Sorry, I was thinking the franchise level player you kept throwing out.  And the whole comment about a “sure thing” .  No way he thinks any player is a sure thing.

And that’s a fair assumption as well.  I disagree with it but I don’t think it’s some crazy thought either.

I actually used the words "a pretty sure thing".   Agreed.  Nothing is a sure thing.   Adley Rutschman was a "pretty sure thing", IMO.   Meaning close to a sure thing.

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, EdwinRip said:

However this discussion is 100% based on results.  If Lawler was under performing, this discussion doesn’t happen.  Austin Martin was the consensus BPA in 2020.  I don’t here many complaining now about us not taking him with his sub 700 ops in AA. The BPA is not the same for every club.  If it is a very close call, many times a tie breaker will be $.

Thank you.  A person of reason.   No one is crying about Austin Martin.   If Lawlar was batting .150 you wouldn't hear a peep.   Then it would be about some other guy picked after Cowser that we should have taken.   Or the PROCESS!

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, EdwinRip said:

However this discussion is 100% based on results.  If Lawler was under performing, this discussion doesn’t happen.  Austin Martin was the consensus BPA in 2020.  I don’t here many complaining now about us not taking him with his sub 700 ops in AA. The BPA is not the same for every club.  If it is a very close call, many times a tie breaker will be $.

It’s not just results.  It’s like the people who said the Os made a poor trade when they dealt Manny.  
 

No they didnt. The trade was fine at the time of making it even if the results don’t end up well.  
 

Again, you can jump off a building and live.  That doesn’t mean it was the right decision to do it. It just turned out well.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

You need to first stop saying "this board" as if the entire board feels one way. We have a diverse group of people with different thoughts. You want an echo chamber of fanboys, try out Twiiter.

 

Honestly Sir, except for you, I don't see many critical of moves/decisions other than Corn and a few others I enjoy but definitely a minority. But point taken.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Fine, but it seems stupid to me for you to believe that Elias viewed Lawlar as a future All-star ML SS, and passed for monetary reasons.   He was willing to pay Fabian 1.12M over slot and he's a guy who carries a lot of risk.   If he felt Lawlar was a pretty sure thing, I'm pretty sure, he would have paid up.    It would be dumb not to.

I hadn't heard this about Fabian, can you provide more info? Source?

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

11 minutes ago, EdwinRip said:

However this discussion is 100% based on results.  If Lawler was under performing, this discussion doesn’t happen.  Austin Martin was the consensus BPA in 2020.  I don’t here many complaining now about us not taking him with his sub 700 ops in AA. The BPA is not the same for every club.  If it is a very close call, many times a tie breaker will be $.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me I try to be consistent and admit when I am wrong. I would have taken Lacy (who I wanted) OR Martin over Kerjstad. Regardless how that turns out, I think that was the best move BUT HUGE difference between that draft and the Lawlar vs CC conversation. Kerjstad got us Baumer. What did CC get us again? Lawlar >>>>>Martin or Lacy more than likely. That's the one single decision (CC over Lawlar) that got me questioning Elias' judgement. 

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

I hadn't heard this about Fabian, can you provide more info? Source?

It's been reported.  I think Kiley McDaniel talked about it but it was also known last summer when the Red Sox offered 2M and Fabian didn't sign.  The Red Sox took him one pick before.  Fabian and the Orioles had a deal in place for 3M.   I don't have a link or source at the moment.   Others on here have confirmed it as well.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

It's been reported.  I think Kiley McDaniel talked about it but it was also known last summer when the Red Sox offered 2M and Fabian didn't sign.  The Red Sox took him one pick before.  Fabian and the Orioles had a deal in place for 3M.   I don't have a link or source at the moment.   Others on here have confirmed it as well.

Thanks! I hadn't heard that before.

[Sports Guy]

Yea, the Fabian thing was definitely reported.  That’s not being made up.  Of course, the report could be wrong but it is the info we have to go off of.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

I can't speak for everyone, but for me I try to be consistent and admit when I am wrong. I would have taken Lacy (who I wanted) OR Martin over Kerjstad. Regardless how that turns out, I think that was the best move BUT HUGE difference between that draft and the Lawlar vs CC conversation. Kerjstad got us Baumer. What did CC get us again? Lawlar >>>>>Martin or Lacy more than likely. That's the one single decision (CC over Lawlar) that got me questioning Elias' judgement. 

Going 1.4M or so under on Cowser got us Rhodes (about 500K over) and Willems (about 800K over).   It's a bit early but Rhodes looks good and Willems is struggling as an 19 (I think his birthday is today or a couple of days ago) year old in full season ball.   A bit early to judge things although it seems as if you don't need to wait.    

We all agree that Lawlar is off to a great start in full season ball.    We all agree that it won't look good if Lawlar turns into an all-star SS and Cowser flops and Rhodes/Willems turn into nothing.   What we don't seem to agree on is that it's too early to call.     You seem to have made up your mind.  You keep reminding us every chance you get.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Going 1.4M or so under on Cowser got us Rhodes (about 500K over) and Willems (about 800K over).   It's a bit early but Rhodes looks good and Willems is struggling as an 19 (I think his birthday is today or a couple of days ago) year old in full season ball.   A bit early to judge things although it seems as if you don't need to wait.    

We all agree that Lawlar is off to a great start in full season ball.    We all agree that it won't look good if Lawlar turns into an all-star SS and Cowser flops and Rhodes/Willems turn into nothing.   What we don't seem to agree on is that it's too early to call.     You seem to have made up your mind.  You keep reminding us every chance you get.

Again, it is because the voices against the pick (and critical of Elias in general) are quiet, probably because of harassment like this. I don't see you and Frobby getting on Tony, why is that? People don't bother to post because they know Frobby and that ilk will say "hey, too early to judge"...same crap I read on here about Flanagan (RIP)/Duquette, and AM (who except for amazing trades, did nothing else well). Elias could grab Jones this year and another great pick in the supplemental (would Fabian fall that much?? doubtful is my guess) would makes things much rosier in my eyes. Oh and SOME effort in the offseason, albeit an inexpensive one. 

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Again, it is because the voices against the pick (and critical of Elias in general) are quiet, probably because of harassment like this. I don't see you and Frobby getting on Tony, why is that? People don't bother to post because they know Frobby and that ilk will say "hey, too early to judge"...same crap I read on here about Flanagan (RIP)/Duquette, and AM (who except for amazing trades, did nothing else well). Elias could grab Jones this year and another great pick in the supplemental (would Fabian fall that much?? doubtful is my guess) would makes things much rosier in my eyes. Oh and SOME effort in the offseason, albeit an inexpensive one. 

Harassment?  (good thing you knew how to spell it!  I was going with 2 r's).    I would say the voices of Corn, you, and all of the posters questioning Elias is the loud majority around here compared to those who are giving him some slack.    I reply to Tony plenty lately.  He's definitely getting more in line with the Elias dissenters.    

If you are going to post around here, you need to put your big boy pants on.   It's not personal.   It's just a message board!

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Again, it is because the voices against the pick (and critical of Elias in general) are quiet, probably because of harassment like this. I don't see you and Frobby getting on Tony, why is that? People don't bother to post because they know Frobby and that ilk will say "hey, too early to judge"...same crap I read on here about Flanagan (RIP)/Duquette, and AM (who except for amazing trades, did nothing else well). Elias could grab Jones this year and another great pick in the supplemental (would Fabian fall that much?? doubtful is my guess) would makes things much rosier in my eyes. Oh and SOME effort in the offseason, albeit an inexpensive one. 

I’m getting on you because you have now mentioned Lawlar 30 times in various threads - yes, I counted.   I’ve got nothing against your opinion that we should have chosen Lawlar.  I just don’t need to hear about it all the time.   Simple as that.