Jorge Mateo

[Jammer7]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I can’t read it because I’m not paying for The Sun but I’m assuming the title of the article gives away what happened; Mateo met with the batting coaches and they made some adjustments which and now he’s finding success. 
 

I have always wondered about this, how far away is a .220 hitter from becoming a good hitter? What adjustments can these guys make in order to become successful?  
 

All of these guys are freak athletes, even the 25th man on the roster, a guy like McKenna. McKenna has elite hand eye coordination. As @DrungoHazewoodlikes to explain, the worst guy in the majors is still in the top 99.9% of baseball players in the world. 
 

I mean, we saw it with Jose Bautista. He was here, no one paid him any attention. Bounces around, ends up in Toronto where he gets the right coaching and becomes a big time power hitter. 
 

I would argue that there’s not much from a physical and raw skills perspective separating a guy like Mateo from Bautista.  What if Mateo doesn’t land here and get this coaching? What if he winds up in Detroit or Cleveland or Arizona?  Does he never figure it out there?  What if Bautista never goes to Toronto?

 

Good stuff. A lot of truth in this. Nearly all of the MLB players, coaches and executives that I have met have told me they are lucky to be here. I thought they were being falsely modest, especially Bryce Harper. But they were being honest. Bob Boone told me once that these players were all talented, some more than others, but the biggest thing was being lucky. He talked about being respectful to the game and appreciating every day in the show.

Some guys swear by certain drills or nutrition or medical procedures or whatever. Brian Roberts and Brady Anderson did specific eye exercises and swore that they were much better because of it. Some guys say ping pong made their hand-eye coordination much keener. There are so many gimmicks and drills. Whatever works, I guess.

There is a huge mental component. The coach has to be a communicator. The players has to be ready to accept the information and the process. The Orioles have done a great job selecting and nurturing their prospects. They have them read books on growth mindset. They have created an environment where humility and a great work ethic are paramount. They look for specific physical traits as well as character and mental aspects.

To your point, I’m not sure all .220 hitters can vastly improve. But when you have the strength, coordination and exit velocities that Jorge has, it surely can give a coach a great starting point. It has a lot to do with process. An everyday routine and approach. All MLB players are skilled, but I am not sure there are many athletes as elite as Jorge in MLB. He is certainly in a class of about the top maybe 5% of past and present players.

MLB organizations, some anyway, have come a long way in the past ten years or so. It used to be, “here’s some ground balls, some BP and a lineup. Go get ‘em.” If they struggled, “Figure it out, kid.” Maybe some veteran would give them some good advice, but it was the dark ages approach. Now, teams are recognizing what actual development can do and the value of it. A lot of very talented players missed because they had no idea how to improve. 

[Jammer7]

16 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Cito Gaston sucks 

He does! Anyone else? Serious question.

Was Don Mattingly a hitting coach first?

Edited August 13, 2022 by Jammer7

[Moose Milligan]

22 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

The gist of it is he met with Hyde, Ryan Fuller and Matt Borgschulte to find an answer for sliders low and away. They put  him through challenging batting practice sessions mixing sliders with 2 seamers in on his hands. Helped him learn to recognize pitches and adjust his approach. But I think the key was Mateo going to the coaches asking for the help and then diving in to what they offered. 

Right. So that adjustment has helped him become successful lately. 
 

Has no one else offered that to him?

[7Mo]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Right. So that adjustment has helped him become successful lately. 
 

Has no one else offered that to him?

I don't know the answer to that. I'm sure he was aware previously and coaches likely gave suggestions. My speculation is it was a combination of the challenging bp plus Jorge reaching a point where he was determined to get it fixed. 

To my knowledge, challenging bp is relatively new and it's certainly embraced by the O's minor league staffs. 

The O's made some adjustments with Voth and he's taken off. The Dodgers made some changes with Evan Phillips and Tyler Anderson and they've had big success. The Giants had success with Yaz. 

I thinking coaching has really improved over the last few years but I think a big key is the player being determined to improve. That's not always the case.  

[Jammer7]

13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Right. So that adjustment has helped him become successful lately. 
 

Has no one else offered that to him?

Not sure. But it is the first time he has had an extended period to play everyday. And to play SS. Amazing things happen when you get someone to believe in you and simply give you an opportunity. Perhaps he has grown hungrier over his inability to get a chance.

For Jorge, I think it was a great fit. A team of coaches and players that helped him at a moment in his life when he was prepared to receive and work his ass off. He had some critics say he would lose focus often in the past. I’m not sure what that looked like, but I do not see that now. Emotions can run high for him, but I love the fire. Rougned Odor is a huge part of Jorge’s improvement, I think. A mentor, or sorts, for sure. He looks really comfortable out there. Hyde, Mansolino, and the hitting duo, and so on, they all have done a great job. 

[Moose Milligan]

9 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

 

I thinking coaching has really improved over the last few years but I think a big key is the player being determined to improve. That's not always the case.  

I can't imagine these guys not being determined to improve.  I mean, sure, you get a guy like Billy Rowell who proves to be a dunce, but I don't think you reach the major leagues because you weren't determined to improve.  Kinda goes with the territory.  

[tntoriole]

24 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

He does! Anyone else? Serious question.

Was Don Mattingly a hitting coach first?

 

Before spending seven seasons as the Rockies' manager, Clint Hurdle was the club's hitting coach. In his five seasons, the Rockies had the five highest batting averages in team history, led the league in on-base percentage three times and had restrained strikeout totals.

 

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/the-best-hitting-coaches-in-mlb/article_641950d7-da2b-5c12-8711-9ecc16f65a2c.html

[Roll Tide]

53 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

I am having trouble thinking of a hitting coach who became a manager. Not saying you are wrong, I just cannot remember one. I don’t think that is a huge thing for a managerial candidate, but maybe I am wrong. 

Wasn’t Crowley a hitting coach? Most managers served as sone other type of coach before becoming a manager.

[Jammer7]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I can't imagine these guys not being determined to improve.  I mean, sure, you get a guy like Billy Rowell who proves to be a dunce, but I don't think you reach the major leagues because you weren't determined to improve.  Kinda goes with the territory.  

You would hope so, but so many young players have not failed much before. They were talented kids who dominated their areas, but struggled when they got to pro ball. With the advent of national level competition in travel ball, kids learn to overcome failure a lot more these days.

The drugs and alcohol and other things that sidetrack young men are always out there. Not every player is as driven as some others, no.

[Jammer7]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

Wasn’t Crowley a hitting coach? Most managers served as sone other type of coach before becoming a manager.

Yes, he sure was. It used to be more common. Charlie Manuel was too, come to think of it. He was the hitting coach that Jim Thome gave the most credit for his success. 

I guess what I was thinking about was the past 20 years or so. Not many, maybe 3-4. My thought was that they just got there and have a lot to prove. I think the reason they are open about what they have done, to a point, is that it builds interest in the fan base. And it builds some faith in the environment they have created. There is a buzz now, and that is why we are spending time on a message board writing about it. 

[tntoriole]

2 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Yes, he sure was. It used to be more common. Charlie Manuel was too, come to think of it. He was the hitting coach that Jim Thome gave the most credit for his success. 

I guess what I was thinking about was the past 20 years or so. Not many, maybe 3-4. My thought was that they just got there and have a lot to prove. I think the reason they are open about what they have done, to a point, is that it builds interest in the fan base. And it builds some faith in the environment they have created. There is a buzz now, and that is why we are spending time on a message board writing about it. 

Jim Frey ..

After spending two seasons managing Bluefield to losing records, he served as the Orioles’ Midwest scout from 1966 through 1969 before joining manager Earl Weaver’s staff on the Orioles’ coaching staff in 1970. Starting as the bullpen and hitting coach that season, he was a member of the team’s coaching staff for 10 seasons, including six seasons as the first-base coach. During his tenure the Orioles won three pennants and the 1970 World Series.

https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/jim-frey/

[7Mo]

7 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I can't imagine these guys not being determined to improve.  I mean, sure, you get a guy like Billy Rowell who proves to be a dunce, but I don't think you reach the major leagues because you weren't determined to improve.  Kinda goes with the territory.  

Without knowing the answer, I'd guess Mateo has always had a poor approach to a well placed slider. I don't think that issue just came up this year. So why hasn't he fixed it previously? I'd think he was always trying to improve as he rose thru the minors. 

I don't think our hitting coaches have some magical formula. But I think they have a really good plan for guys ready to make changes. I've seen articles discussing that with minor league affiliates and how at first, they gave each player his choice...do you want grooved fastballs for bp? Or do you want the mix of grooved with pitches intended to get you out? 

I think Jammer has it right above and those factors, plus Mateo being determined to get this one thing fixed and the training techniques all came together at the right time. Maybe my wording is bad because I think each player is trying to improve. But there's a difference when a guy is ready to face something he really struggles with and deal with it. That's a different level of determination. When you're ready to face your weakness and deal with it even though it's gonna bring a figurative punch in the nose/embarrassment/failure to get to later success. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I believe. 

[Jammer7]

34 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Jim Frey ..

After spending two seasons managing Bluefield to losing records, he served as the Orioles’ Midwest scout from 1966 through 1969 before joining manager Earl Weaver’s staff on the Orioles’ coaching staff in 1970. Starting as the bullpen and hitting coach that season, he was a member of the team’s coaching staff for 10 seasons, including six seasons as the first-base coach. During his tenure the Orioles won three pennants and the 1970 World Series.

https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/jim-frey/

Way back machine…lol. 

[Frobby]

45 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Wasn’t Crowley a hitting coach? Most managers served as sone other type of coach before becoming a manager.

What does Crowley have to do with it?  He never managed, did he?

[Jammer7]

33 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

Without knowing the answer, I'd guess Mateo has always had a poor approach to a well placed slider. I don't think that issue just came up this year. So why hasn't he fixed it previously? I'd think he was always trying to improve as he rose thru the minors. 

I don't think our hitting coaches have some magical formula. But I think they have a really good plan for guys ready to make changes. I've seen articles discussing that with minor league affiliates and how at first, they gave each player his choice...do you want grooved fastballs for bp? Or do you want the mix of grooved with pitches intended to get you out? 

I think Jammer has it right above and those factors, plus Mateo being determined to get this one thing fixed and the training techniques all came together at the right time. Maybe my wording is bad because I think each player is trying to improve. But there's a difference when a guy is ready to face something he really struggles with and deal with it. That's a different level of determination. When you're ready to face your weakness and deal with it even though it's gonna bring a figurative punch in the nose/embarrassment/failure to get to later success. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I believe. 

I agree. Getting those daily reps allows you to be you, and fail. Then, you have to make adjustments. If the player is walking on egg shells, fearing failure, he will likely fail miserably. The player realizes the need, hopefully the coach develops trust, and they get together and diagnose the issue. Together.