Jorge Lopez traded to Twins for pitching prospects (edit)

[sportsfan8703]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Yeah, we saw them last year.  Baker was good last year, especially in the 2nd half.  Voth was good the whole time he was with us last year.  Gillaspie didn't look that good last year but he looks much better this year.   Akin was solid first half last year.   Perez and Bautista look the same to me.   The guy I trust the least is Baumann but he's got potential.    Voth is fixable.  Baker looks to be coming around.   You are panicking over a few games.

People that think I’m panicking need to also remember the last two months of last season. It’s gotten worse. I’m just living in reality. 
 

Baker did put up some nice numbers. However, as a B side reliever. He cracked a lot when he started getting those A side reliever chances. 

[spleen1015]

Not saying you're panicing, but what is there to panic about? Didn't most of us think there was a good chance this BP was going to be boop coming into the season? No reason to panic if we knew things were poop to start with.

Edited April 6, 2023 by spleen1015

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

People that think I’m panicking need to also remember the last two months of last season. It’s gotten worse. I’m just living in reality. 
 

Baker did put up some nice numbers. However, as a B side reliever. He cracked a lot when he started getting those A side reliever chances. 

The last two months of last season's bullpen was largely Krehbiel, who's not here right now, and Akin.   Those two were bad.   

[maybenxtyr]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

People that think I’m panicking need to also remember the last two months of last season. It’s gotten worse. I’m just living in reality. 
 

Baker did put up some nice numbers. However, as a B side reliever. He cracked a lot when he started getting those A side reliever chances. 

Why stress over something that the front office seems fine with at the moment?  They've shown that they're not going to do any panic moves. 

 

Bullpens are quirky and generally fringe guys don't repeat all of the time. As fans, we just have to hope some of them get straight and Givens gets back soon. Hopefully Tate at the end of the month or sometime in May. 

[waroriole]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't recall anyone having much heartburn over the Gibson signing. In fact, most of us thought it was awash with a chance to be better than 2022 Lyles.

There was the one guy who would never stop complaining about it. It probably just seemed like so many people because he brought it up more often than Corn brings up service time. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Can Povich come pitch in middle relief this year?  I’m serious. Because we’re desperate. 
 

I hope this doesn’t happen, but if the Yankees might hang 15 on the bullpen alone this series. And that’s a damn shame that Elias constructed a roster that way. And it started with the Lopez trade. But it’s cool… Povich is two years away from being a back end SP. 

Bro, we're 6 games into a 162 game season.

And I know I went off the rails after McKenna dropped that fly ball, but this isn't that.  

I think you're missing a few things:

First, bullpens are volatile from year to year.  And while last year's bullpen was probably our biggest strength, that doesn't mean it's going to be good this year, even with some similar faces.  It also doesn't mean it's going to be awful, either.  

Second, if you'll recall how the team started last year, this place was fit to be tied.  I mean, we were screaming bloody murder, calling them a dumpster fire, etc.  April 2022 on the OH was, like, Chicago in the 30s or Miami in the 80s, bullets flying everywhere on mean streets.  

And then things got better.  

Third, Lopez didn't exactly light it up for the Twins last year after we traded him, so I'm finding it a bit odd that you're harping on this several months later after he's gone 2.2 innings without giving up a run with a save.  And I LIKED Lopez, a lot.  But any time you can trade a reliever who's pitching significantly better than he ever has before for an arm like Povich plus some other lottery tickets, you should.  There was reason to think that Lopez was riding a hot streak for the first half last year and I do believe Elias sold high.

You should know by now that a baseball season isn't a sprint, it's a marathon.  Don't get me wrong, I see the cause for concern for the bullpen, too, but I think you should learn from not just the Lopez trade, but the entire 2022 season and what transpired.

[Moose Milligan]

I mean, if we're judging the season so far, we looked like complete ass in Boston, outside of the offense.  The defense played a strong hand in making the bullpen look bad in that series, too.  And then we looked a lot better in Texas, good enough to win the series.  A lot of that 2 wins was bullpen work, specifically Tyler Wells holding it down but also a solid job from the new guy, Column B.  

 

[sportsfan8703]

11 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

Why stress over something that the front office seems fine with at the moment?  They've shown that they're not going to do any panic moves. 

 

Bullpens are quirky and generally fringe guys don't repeat all of the time. As fans, we just have to hope some of them get straight and Givens gets back soon. Hopefully Tate at the end of the month or sometime in May. 

I just learned this new rule. You can’t send guys up/down within the first 10 days/games of the season, unless they need the IL. So we’re married to this cast of characters through the Yankees series. 

[Frobby]

48 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Do stats tell the story or can you just look at the stuff and see it’s not there?  How many swings and misses are these guys getting?  Baker is the only one that has “good stuff” but he’s shown he comes up small a lot. 
 

We’ve seen these guys. It’s not a video game. It’s a lot different pitching in medium-high leverage than it is being an up/down guy who comes into low leverage situations. 
 

Bottomline, this cast of characters in the pen aren’t new to us. We saw them all last year+. It’s not just the SSS this year. 

Yes, I saw them last year, when we were 5th in bullpen ERA and had the highest save rate in the league.  

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

 So we’re married to this cast of characters through the Yankees series. 

Good news is we can start divorcing some of these guys after, amirite?  

*rimshot*

[sportsfan8703]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Bro, we're 6 games into a 162 game season.

And I know I went off the rails after McKenna dropped that fly ball, but this isn't that.  

I think you're missing a few things:

First, bullpens are volatile from year to year.  And while last year's bullpen was probably our biggest strength, that doesn't mean it's going to be good this year, even with some similar faces.  It also doesn't mean it's going to be awful, either.  

Second, if you'll recall how the team started last year, this place was fit to be tied.  I mean, we were screaming bloody murder, calling them a dumpster fire, etc.  April 2022 on the OH was, like, Chicago in the 30s or Miami in the 80s, bullets flying everywhere on mean streets.  

And then things got better.  

Third, Lopez didn't exactly light it up for the Twins last year after we traded him, so I'm finding it a bit odd that you're harping on this several months later after he's gone 2.2 innings without giving up a run with a save.  And I LIKED Lopez, a lot.  But any time you can trade a reliever who's pitching significantly better than he ever has before for an arm like Povich plus some other lottery tickets, you should.  There was reason to think that Lopez was riding a hot streak for the first half last year and I do believe Elias sold high.

You should know by now that a baseball season isn't a sprint, it's a marathon.  Don't get me wrong, I see the cause for concern for the bullpen, too, but I think you should learn from not just the Lopez trade, but the entire 2022 season and what transpired.

I’m not judging Lopez on his 2.1 IP this year. The guy had a bad four appearance stretch between us and the twins that was bookended by him being lights out all season. 
 

We all got off on the idea of building up a closer Billy Beane style and flipping him for prospects. However, Beane didn’t trade away guys with 99mph sinkers. He traded away more of the Ryan Kohlmeier type closers. 

[sportsfan8703]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Yes, I saw them last year, when we were 5th in bullpen ERA and had the highest save rate in the league.  

Yup. And Lopez’s 48.1 IP with a 1.68 ERA was a huge part. 
 

I think we’re missing the point here. There’s trading away relievers… then there’s trading away guys with an absolute dominant pitch. 99 mph sinker. Lopez wasn’t just accumulating saves on a bad team because he was “the closer”. 

[maybenxtyr]

5 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I just learned this new rule. You can’t send guys up/down within the first 10 days/games of the season, unless they need the IL. So we’re married to this cast of characters through the Yankees series. 

At this point all they can do is work out some of the kinks. It's hard to rebuild a BP mid season. 

[maybenxtyr]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Yup. And Lopez’s 48.1 IP with a 1.68 ERA was a huge part. 
 

I think we’re missing the point here. There’s trading away relievers… then there’s trading away guys with an absolute dominant pitch. 99 mph sinker. Lopez wasn’t just accumulating saves on a bad team because he was “the closer”. 

Lopez was excellent in Baltimore last season...no question. The trade was still a smart move for a team that chooses to not draft pitching. 

 

Neither of the guys in question have pitched enough innings to make a judgement so far. 

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I’m not judging Lopez on his 2.1 IP this year. The guy had a bad four appearance stretch between us and the twins that was bookended by him being lights out all season. 
 

We all got off on the idea of building up a closer Billy Beane style and flipping him for prospects. However, Beane didn’t trade away guys with 99mph sinkers. He traded away more of the Ryan Kohlmeier type closers. 

Well if you're not judging Lopez on what he's done so far this season, surely you'll include his 4.37 ERA and 1.632 WHIP and two blown saves in 6 opportunities last year in Minnesota after we traded him.

I think you're highly overrating Lopez.  You're making it sound like we traded away prime Dennis Eckersley or Mariano Rivera.