Are we ever going to spend some money?

[Bahama O's Fan]

Imagine they don't. They only give the arbitration raises and maybe pick up Lyles' option. How competitive do you believe our team will be next year?

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Imagine they don't. They only give the arbitration raises and maybe pick up Lyles' option. How competitive do you believe our team will be next year?

Uncertain.  Maybe a bit better than this year, maybe a bit worse.  You’ve got Henderson, Grayson and Westburg coming up, and a full year of Adley.   That’s all to the good.  I think the bullpen would probably regress significantly.  That’s where the downside lies.  

[bpilktree]

I would rather they spend money on the future then signing over priced average free agents.   Let’s give some extensions to our core and buy out some future years.  Give Adley 180 million or so for 8 years.  Then do the same thing with Gunnar in the next year or so.  I don’t particularly care for the free agent class this year in terms of pitching so I would rather make a trade or two to get a starter that is at the top of the rotation.  

[Can_of_corn]

24 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Uncertain.  Maybe a bit better than this year, maybe a bit worse.  You’ve got Henderson, Grayson and Westburg coming up, and a full year of Adley.   That’s all to the good.  I think the bullpen would probably regress significantly.  That’s where the downside lies.  

And the starting rotation.

[Frobby]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And the starting rotation.

Because of Grayson’s arrival and midseason return of Means, I think the rotation couid be better than this year.  But you’re right that some starters couid regress.  

I also should have said, we will probably have more injuries to our position players and bullpen than we’ve experienced this year.   To date we’ve had good luck on the injury front.  
 

[BRobinsonfan]

5 hours ago, Natty said:

When you are dead last in payroll that's nice of Elias to say that. 

So it appears he answered your question.  

[yark14]

With how much ownership has pocketed with our insanely low payrolls the last few years, I hope they put all that money back into the team with big free agent aquisitions.  Won't happen, but a boy can dream.

Hell, I hope they spend until they are bankrupt.

Edited August 27, 2022 by yark14

[Bemorewins]

6 hours ago, crowmst3k! said:

Who specifically should the Orioles acquire during this offseason? What price should they pay?  

Instead of the low-effort 'O's need to spend' post, it would be more constructive to talk about how they should allocate their resources.

IMO the O's are uniquely positioned to not only compete in the short term for a world series but they also have long term assets that should keep them good for a long while (avoiding any talk of a "window") like the last time we had a good team.

All of our best players are in their first year of the bigs or not even on the roster yet. No one but Santander is even arb eligible currently and next year Mullins and Hays will only be in their 1st year of arb eligibility. As was stated by the OP we currently have the lowest payroll in MLB. In addition, Elias and the front office has shown the acumen to find talent from the waiver wire i.e. Mateo, Perez, Bautista, etc.

We are perfectly primed to seriously contend for a world series with the RIGHT additions which should be very affordable given where we are from a financial commitment standpoint currently.

Having said that, this is what I would do:

1) Top of the rotation arm - My preference would be Verlander because he has so much post season experience and success. Plus he is still pitching at a Cy Young level and has "a new elbow". Also, he will be able to teach our young pitchers so much. And when you add that to the fact that he can be had for a high dollar short term deal. IMO he is IDEAL. Even if we have to give him a say 2 year contract at 40-43 mill per with an option for a 3rd year. He literally has no red flags except his birthdate, which again is not much risk given the short term nature of the deal.

2) Here's where I feel like we can accelerate our championship aspirations. If we were able to acquire a second rotation piece to put at the top of our staff to compete with the Dodgers, Yanks, Astros, Mets who all have AT LEAST 2 top guys. This will keep the pressure off of Grayson Rodriguez where he doesn't have to pitch a game 1 or 2 or even a game 7 of a series in his first year. We can get a guy in FA like Rodon for about 30 mill a year on a 4/5 year contract. OR trade for a guy like Lopez. My issue with trading is how much it may weaken or offense (which is borderline adequate for a world series contender as is, even with adding a Henderson, a more mature Stowers, and a more mature Adley). For reference look at the Astros's lineup (who are the best team in the AL) and compare it to ours. Then ask yourself what will it take for us to match up with them bullet for bullet.

Those first 2 moves for about 70- 80 mill in addition to our projected 36 mill payroll would pretty much put us in the conversation of serious contenders next year. However, my final thing I would like to see us do (which would show me that things are different this time around and that the insanity of stupidity that has plagued our last 30 years of incompetence is over) is to do number #3....

3) Sign Adley AND/OR Gunnar long term as to buy out there arb years and get them beyond the 6/7 years (like several other clubs) including the Braves, Rays, Padres (I know that hasn't worked out the best for them thus far but you gotta know the type of person you are investing in before you give them the bag), etc have done. This might require adding another 40-45 million in payroll which would take us to 155-165 for the next few years which is still lower than what we had going into 2018. So it can be done and afforded.

I DON'T EXPECT ALL OF THIS TO HAPPEN BUT IT WOULD BE NICE. The first 2 however, would put us on the brink of being in the conversation for a world series which I hope ownership AND the front office see as realistic goals AND that is what all of this tear down has been for.

[Bemorewins]

4 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Imagine they don't. They only give the arbitration raises and maybe pick up Lyles' option. How competitive do you believe our team will be next year?

This would be IMO the WORST case scenario which would be committing us to another cycle of 12- 16. A team that is not good enough to get over the hump. Our ceiling would be hoping we get the right wild card match up so we can win 1 round of the playoffs.

Lyles has no business being on a team that is expecting to compete for a world series (especially as anything more than back filler to your rotation).

Some may think that I am overzealous about my world series estimation, but the stars are really aligning for us to be in that conversation if we play our cards right. IMO wasting money and a rotation spot on a Lyles type is fine for this year's team, but totally in appropriate for next year going forward when there are many better options, who while more expensive will give you much better quality. Lyles is the very definition of a mediocre, innings eater; who is not the type of pitcher who you want pitching with your season on the line.

I hope with everything that the approach that you mentioned will not be the approach in the offseason. It will kill a lot of the momentum that this season has begun to build with the fanbase.

[scottbbfm]

I also like the idea of Verlander…but I’m sure other teams feel the same.  Could also be a tough sell to Kate…

[deward]

4 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

This would be IMO the WORST case scenario which would be committing us to another cycle of 12- 16. A team that is not good enough to get over the hump. Our ceiling would be hoping we get the right wild card match up so we can win 1 round of the playoffs.

I agree with your general point that ownership needs to step up to the plate now and follow through on their commitment to increase payroll once the rebuild was complete. However, I feel compelled to point out that the 2014 team was plenty good enough to win a title, they just ran into KC at the wrong time. 

[wildcard]

14 hours ago, Frobby said:

Uncertain.  Maybe a bit better than this year, maybe a bit worse.  You’ve got Henderson, Grayson and Westburg coming up, and a full year of Adley.   That’s all to the good.  I think the bullpen would probably regress significantly.  That’s where the downside lies.  

Starting pitching was hit hard with injuries this year.  Means, Grayson and Tyler Wells.  All will be back next season.  Means probably be delayed for a couple of months.

[Roll Tide]

17 hours ago, Natty said:

Didn't the team ownership say something like their main goal was to save money? 

Are they going to listen to us fans? 

I say lets get a hitter who has a BA above .270, we don't have one. 

Lets get a Cy Young type pitcher. 

Last off season, we did sign the starting pitcher who had the most HR and ER given up. I'll bet his phone was ringing off the hook, right? 

I’m pretty sure Elias already said that they would be active in free agency this off season. Did you miss it? Your timing seems really odd.

[wildcard]

There are a lot of reasons why they pitching has improved this season.   Maturity of young pitchers,  the Wall, Holt, new attack pitching philosophy,  great defense,  in no particular order.

Next year the O's have (6) starters: Grayson, Kremer, Bradish, Tyler Wells, Voth, Watkins.   They can make a decision after the season if Lyles is a good eating innings 5th starter or if there is someone on the market that is better.  Means should be back in June/July.   DL Hall's control is a huge question mark even though they O's will have him come to ST as a starter.  There are  a lot of O's starters ahead of him in terms of effectiveness. 

Bautista, Perez, Tate, Krehbiel, Akin, Baker, Vespi should all be back with who ever doesn't make the rotation helping out.  For example Watkins and Voth.

For me the pitching projects better next year than the offense.  Adding Gunnar will help but overall the offense is middle of the pack.

[Roll Tide]

10 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

This would be IMO the WORST case scenario which would be committing us to another cycle of 12- 16. A team that is not good enough to get over the hump. Our ceiling would be hoping we get the right wild card match up so we can win 1 round of the playoffs.

Lyles has no business being on a team that is expecting to compete for a world series (especially as anything more than back filler to your rotation).

Some may think that I am overzealous about my world series estimation, but the stars are really aligning for us to be in that conversation if we play our cards right. IMO wasting money and a rotation spot on a Lyles type is fine for this year's team, but totally in appropriate for next year going forward when there are many better options, who while more expensive will give you much better quality. Lyles is the very definition of a mediocre, innings eater; who is not the type of pitcher who you want pitching with your season on the line.

I hope with everything that the approach that you mentioned will not be the approach in the offseason. It will kill a lot of the momentum that this season has begun to build with the fanbase.

 

Lyles would be fine on this team or really any as your 4th or 5th starter. Not as your #1 starter, saying that we are now 8 games over with the best record .700 winning over a significant period, (I think the stat was over the last 60 or so games). So while I think they will try to upgrade over Lyles. I think we can expect to the team to focus on hitter with Kremer, Bradish, Watkins, Voth, and Wells all showing that they made the jump.