Orioles sign Adam Frazier

[Ripken]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, I think we’re going to find out over the next two years.  Why two?  Reading between the lines, I think Elias believes the existing talent won’t be reaching it’s peak until then, and/or that there are players in the upper minors (Westburg, Ortiz, Norby, Cowser) that he’s still evaluating to see how strong his internal solutions are.  He seems to want to make cautious, short-term minor upgrades this year rather than swinging for the fences more.   Not saying I completely agree with that approach, but that’s what I see.  

Agreed.  In other words, he's saying we're still in the rebuilding phase.  He doesn't think we're quite ready to contend yet.  Odd considering the team just won 83 games, has more good prospects coming, and full years from AR,GH,GRod.  Making it worse, was much talk (no matter what was exactly said or how it was really intended) about taking the next step this year.  It's incredibly deflating, for many, anyway.  I learned long ago not to trust our dumpster fire ownership.  I have zero hope or expectation every off season.

As I've said, the biggest thing ME should take from all of this is learning to shut up.  It's great that he wants to engage with the media and fans but it doesn't help.  He should stick with the generic GM speak going forward.  He has a very pissed off fan base right now, which sure as hell doesn't work with the "if you come, we will spend" owner.

[owknows]

5 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I have never understood the idea that an organization does not have an understanding about a player if they are not on the big league roster. They can still evaluate them at AAA. 
 

Insurance Companies and Car Dealerships have no shortage of guys who had a 780 OPS in the minors and couldn't hit a big league fastball, or curveball.

[owknows]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Some of it’s going to be learned at the minor league level.  Norby and Ortiz won’t be rushed.   They’ll spend most of the year in AAA.   Westburg and Vavra strike me as the guys who are detrimentally affected by the Frazier sigining.  That’s why I think a trade this offseason is likely.   

Can't say I disagree...  But I come back to asking why it has to be that way?

Why put a roadblock in the way, when you've already got better talent to play?

Why not make the more informed decision based on MLB playing time?

[Aristotelian]

33 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, I think we’re going to find out over the next two years.  Why two?  Reading between the lines, I think Elias believes the existing talent won’t be reaching it’s peak until then, and/or that there are players in the upper minors (Westburg, Ortiz, Norby, Cowser) that he’s still evaluating to see how strong his internal solutions are.  He seems to want to make cautious, short-term minor upgrades this year rather than swinging for the fences more.   Not saying I completely agree with that approach, but that’s what I see.  

He is definitely avoiding anything long term and trying to upgrade where he can with 1-2 year guys. I see how Gibson fits with that approach but not Frazier. We already have three starting infielders plus Vavra on the team and Westburg very close. For OF we have three starters plus Stowers on the team and Cowser close. I can only conclude he is planning to make some trades, either with prospects or guys on the MLB roster.

[eddie83]

3 minutes ago, owknows said:

Insurance Companies and Car Dealerships have no shortage of guys who had a 780 OPS in the minors and couldn't hit a big league fastball, or curveball.

I’ll play along. So what? 

 

If you have the skill to be a big league player having you arrival delayed is not the reason you didn’t succeed. Your talent is what makes you successful. I would like to think the Orioles have the ability to judge that talent whether it is at AAA or not. 

[eddie83]

9 minutes ago, Ripken said:

Agreed.  In other words, he's saying we're still in the rebuilding phase.  He doesn't think we're quite ready to contend yet.  Odd considering the team just won 83 games, has more good prospects coming, and full years from AR,GH,GRod.  Making it worse, was much talk (no matter what was exactly said or how it was really intended) about taking the next step this year.  It's incredibly deflating, for many, anyway.  I learned long ago not to trust our dumpster fire ownership.  I have zero hope or expectation every off season.

As I've said, the biggest thing ME should take from all of this is learning to shut up.  It's great that he wants to engage with the media and fans but it doesn't help.  He should stick with the generic GM speak going forward.  He has a very pissed off fan base right now, which sure as hell doesn't work with the "if you come, we will spend" owner.

I agree with you Elias talking about adding a #1-3 starter looks bad. I didn’t care for the odds of winning the division either. I don’t think it’s a huge deal but he would have been better off not saying a thing. 
 

I don’t get why a GM in a “rebuilding” year would add Frazier. That’s the part I don’t get. He/Ownership are clearly not in the all in phase. 

[owknows]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I’ll play along. So what? 

 

If you have the skill to be a big league player having you arrival delayed is not the reason you didn’t succeed. Your talent is what makes you successful. I would like to think the Orioles have the ability to judge that talent whether it is at AAA or not. 

The Orioles have the ability to judge talent at all levels, to the degree that it can be judged.

But as we all know, there isn't 100% correlation between AAA success and MLB success..

If your aim is to build major league success, what is the point of adding impediments to the advancement of MILB players that are ready to advance?

Why delay?

[Frobby]

Just now, Ripken said:

Agreed.  In other words, he's saying we're still in the rebuilding phase.  He doesn't think we're quite ready to contend yet.  Odd considering the team just won 83 games, has more good prospects coming, and full years from AR,GH,GRod.  Making it worse, was much talk (no matter what was exactly said or how it was really intended) about taking the next step this year.  It's incredibly deflating, for many, anyway.  I learned long ago not to trust our dumpster fire ownership.  I have zero hope or expectation every off season.

As I've said, the biggest thing ME should take from all of this is learning to shut up.  It's great that he wants to engage with the media and fans but it doesn't help.  He should stick with the generic GM speak going forward.  He has a very pissed off fan base right now, which sure as hell doesn't work with the "if you come, we will spend" owner.

I don’t think we are still in the rebuilding stage, depending how you want to define the term.  Elias has said our goal is to make the playoffs this year.  He’s adding some pieces.   But he seems to be holding back on longer term moves.

[Frobby]

18 minutes ago, owknows said:

Can't say I disagree...  But I come back to asking why it has to be that way?

Why put a roadblock in the way, when you've already got better talent to play?

Why not make the more informed decision based on MLB playing time?

I agree.  It suggests Elias isn’t very confident in some of these guys.  

[eddie83]

2 minutes ago, owknows said:

The Orioles have the ability to judge talent at all levels, to the degree that it can be judged.

But as we all know, there isn't 100% correlation between AAA success and MLB success..

If your aim is to build major league success, what is the point of adding impediments to the advancement of MILB players that are ready to advance?

Why delay?

Because they think adding Frazier can help the 2023 team. That’s why. Elias may be wrong. Perhaps he thinks some of the kids aren’t ready. Perhaps he thinks a deal may happen. Perhaps he likes the depth it creates. He is high in Frazier bouncing back. Maybe it’s a combo of all of it. 
 

I don’t get the idea that this impedes the organization. You just said AAA success and the big league may not correlate. Ok. So then why does everyone expect it to correlate right away with the Westburg and Stowers of the world? 
 

The worst case scenario of this move is a couple of hundred at bats not being given to a prospect. Nothing more. I’ll keep pointing out as long as Urias is here how many at bats was Westburg getting anyway if he was on the team? Urias won a GG. They aren’t just going to ditch him. The other scenario is if  someone gets dealt, someone gets hurt etc. If the Orioles had added a Brantley than that would hav cost at bats for someone. Now because he is considered a better player I’m sure more people would have been ok with it. But still. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

 Having Urias on the roster would be explanation enough to keep Westburg down. You think he is going to send Stowers down enough to get a year back? 
 

 

Why do so many people keep bringing Ortiz up. They already have Mateo, Urias and Gunnar on the roster. How would they possibly have both of Ortiz or Westburg here? 
 

I see a bunch of people who are pissed at Elias/ownership over the lack of spending and comments made. All fair. I don’t get attaching those feelings to this move. 
 

The worst case is a couple hundred at bats less for a prospect. Worst case. Nothing more. Nobody dealt, options galore. 

If we had not squandered $8 million on a marginally better version of Odor,  Westburg or Ortiz could have served as the everyday 2B with Urias as the UIF, so it would seem that Elias either believes that they are not ready or he wants to prevent one of them from reaching a full year of service time in 2023.

Heck, Urias could have just been the everyday 2B or he could have stayed at third with Gunnar at SS and Mateo at 2B.

Also, the actual worst case scenario is another full season of Odor-like production at 2B from Frazier.

[eddie83]

One more thing is this. This is not about Frazier but about one year deals in general. You either have to outbid someone/out recruit like a Gibson, as well as signing a player who -for a reason- is only getting a one year deal. 

 

No player in a one year deal does not have some red flags. 
 

I firmly believe the Orioles are at a point they should be adding a multi year contract for a SP. No question. With position players - Frazier aside - I didn’t see them adding anyone for more than a year unless a trade was made. That is due to the young talent here and on the way. That would block someone. 
 

If that is the case -no trade- then they weren’t adding anyone beyond a year no matter who it was. Someone like a Brantley who looks happy in HOU, has a ring, a ton of team success would have to be outbid on. How much would he want to come here if Houston and others want him?
 

So then the question is do you add anyone and if so who? 

 

[Just Regular]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Any GM playing 8M for 1 WAR should be fired.

Last winter Dombrowski put $60mm in 2022 salary on Schwarber, Castellanos, Knebel, Hand and Familia, acquiring 3 wins by B-Ref's guess as it played out.     Those and Kyle Gibson got them to 6th in their league by a thin margin.

 

[eddie83]

13 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

If we had not squandered $8 million on a marginally better version of Odor,  Westburg or Ortiz could have served as the everyday 2B with Urias as the UIF, so it would seem that Elias either believes that they are not ready or he wants to prevent one of them from reaching a full year of service time in 2023.

Heck, Urias could have just been the everyday 2B or he could have stayed at third with Gunnar at SS and Mateo at 2B.

Also, the actual worst case scenario is another full season of Odor-like production at 2B from Frazier.

Once again why would you “waste $8M” for service time. Just play Urias full time. You don’t have to spend any money to accomplish that. Just play him.  
 

People keep saying because Odor played so much that means Frazier will as well if he doesn’t play well. Obviously they are playing him a ton but that doesn’t mean he is guaranteed to be there all year. 

[Ripken]

24 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree.  It suggests Elias isn’t very confident in some of these guys.  

That would be a serious problem.