Schoenfeld gives Os offseason a D+

[oriole]

Gibson move is a bit of a wash. Frazier is a head scratcher. But I think McCann and Irvin are both solid additions as far as a backup catcher and a #5 starter go. I think a D+ or C- is warranted. This could be an actually good team with young superstars, solid veterans, and a cast of flexible position players and young starters with a lot of potential. Instead Elias went with the incremental additions and absolutely nothing in the realm of a real game changer. This is the most disappointed I’ve been in an O’s offseason in a really long time.

[interloper]

Ok? 

[maybenxtyr]

Is this the proper venue for discussion about signing Frazier? Just curious what everyone thinks about it?

[Moose Milligan]

Sounds about right. 
 

What was that rallying cry about the off-season not being over yet? Hey, It’S oNLY FeBrUaRy 15tH!!!!!

[Can_of_corn]

18 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Sounds about right. 
 

What was that rallying cry about the off-season not being over yet? Hey, It’S oNLY FeBrUaRy 15tH!!!!!

I'm sure that #1-#3 pitcher will be here any day now.

[tntoriole]

4 hours ago, btdart20 said:

I'd love to hear Schoenfeld's take on 'the process here' because I'm just guessing.  And I think the rest of us are too.  And then he goes on to compare the O's to the Astros and, well, I think they're on a pretty good long-term trajectory as an organization.  

For the record, I have no issues with a D+ either.  Especially as it compares with 'lift off' and expectations of a normal 'competitive window'.

If the Elias process comes anywhere close to the Astros, the Orioles will have their best stretch since the 1970s 

[spiritof66]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/insider/story/_/id/35630053/2022-2023-mlb-offseason-grades-all-30-teams
 

Additions: RHP Kyle Gibson, LHP Cole Irvin, 2B Adam Frazier, C James McCann, RHP Mychal Givens

Departures: RHP Jordan Lyles, 2B Rougned Odor

I understand the process here ... but this feels like a missed opportunity. GM Mike Elias came from the Astros. The 2022 Orioles, who won 83 games, are similar to the 2015 Astros, a surprise wild-card team that year with 86 wins. Those Astros played the long game, however, not making significant additions from outside the organization until Verlander in 2017 and then Gerrit Cole prior to the 2018 season.

That's the approach Elias is using with the Orioles. With Gunnar Henderson and Grayson Rodriguez joining Adley Rutschman, the young core should be dynamic -- with others on the way. Still, this was probably the best free agent market that we'll see over the next few years and the Orioles' payroll is so low they could have afforded one of the free agent starters. Again, however: the Astros' blueprint. At some point, the Orioles are probably more likely to use their farm system depth to trade for a starter (as with Verlander and Cole) rather than commit nine figures. It means the 2023 Orioles will probably take a small step back, as the Astros did in 2016.

Grade: D+

You can argue about the grade. Maybe it should be a C or C- or D. I think D+ is perfectly defensible.

But I'm perplexed by the comment "I can understand the process here." I don't see the process here as anything other but the Orioles not being willing to compete seriously for a pitcher who's looking for a contract extending beyond a year or two. Elias blamed the unexpected level of demand for free-agent pitchers and its impact on the contracts given to those guys.

OK, let's say I'd like to buy a new or lightly used Maserati, and I've told everybody I know I'd be looking around and hoped to have one for the springtime. Even though I've looked real hard I haven't been able to find one for what I'm willing to spend -- up to $50,000, which seems to me like a lot for a car. But it turns out that the market's not what I expected it to be. So I haven't got a Maserati. Maybe that market will change and prices will be lower, or I'll have more to spend, next year. That's a process? (I'm not really interested in a Maserati.)

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, oriole said:

Gibson move is a bit of a wash. Frazier is a head scratcher. But I think McCann and Irvin are both solid additions as far as a backup catcher and a #5 starter go. I think a D+ or C- is warranted. This could be an actually good team with young superstars, solid veterans, and a cast of flexible position players and young starters with a lot of potential. Instead Elias went with the incremental additions and absolutely nothing in the realm of a real game changer. This is the most disappointed I’ve been in an O’s offseason in a really long time.

God I hope Adam Frazier wins the flipping AL batting title just to shush the snark on this board.  

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

God I hope Adam Frazier wins the flipping AL batting title just to shush the snark on this board.  

It's just not fair, you can say that and get away with it but if I say I hope Kjerstad fails as a prospect just to shush the Elias Stans on this board I'm the bad guy!

One could say that one side is every bit as annoying as the other.

 

 

 

 

I am not in any way wishing ill on Kjerstad.

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's just not fair, you can say that and get away with it but if I say I hope Kjerstad fails as a prospect just to shush the Elias Stans on this board I'm the bad guy!

One could say that one side is every bit as annoying as the other.

 

 

 

 

I am not in any way wishing ill on Kjerstad.

Why isn't this board full of Elias' fans?  He's executed a text-book rebuild basically as perfectly as could be asked for.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Why isn't this board full of Elias' fans?  He's executed a text-book rebuild basically as perfectly as could be asked for.

Did I say fan?

I don't think I did.

[Pickles]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Did I say fan?

I don't think I did.

Oh, a sTaN.  Sorry I don't speak gibberish.

[OriolesMagic83]

1 hour ago, oriole said:

Gibson move is a bit of a wash. Frazier is a head scratcher. But I think McCann and Irvin are both solid additions as far as a backup catcher and a #5 starter go. I think a D+ or C- is warranted. This could be an actually good team with young superstars, solid veterans, and a cast of flexible position players and young starters with a lot of potential. Instead Elias went with the incremental additions and absolutely nothing in the realm of a real game changer. This is the most disappointed I’ve been in an O’s offseason in a really long time.

I put this more on John Angelos than Elias.  Does anyone think that Angelos wanted $50 million in free agent salary added next year, but Elias said, no I have to follow the Astros model.  (How about extending a core player like Houston did Altuve?)

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Oh, a sTaN.  Sorry I don't speak gibberish.

The English language is a living thing.  Oxford languages acknowledges stan as a viable English term, so hardly gibberish.

Shame you can't adjust.

[mobico]

When I saw the article (before this thread was started), I guessed that Schoenfeld would give them a C-. So perhaps just a tad harsh.

But! Here's what Brad Doolittle had to day when asked which team he was most excited about this year as opposed to last:

Doolittle: Of all the recent rebuilding teams, I feel like the Orioles have emerged as the most interesting. It's not just because they were so much better last season (though that's part of it), because I feel like they played over their heads. But on top of that unexpected success, now the O's are starting to graduate some of their prospects, and they have more than a few who seem like they can be true impact players. Adley Rutschman already is. Gunnar Henderson is following in his wake. Grayson Rodriguez should be a factor soon. The rebuild in Baltimore looked murky to me as recently as a year ago. Now I'm just excited for the fans there.