Adley Rutschman 2023

[Jim'sKid26]

36 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

We don’t know exactly but Brandon Hyde probably has a better idea than we do.  Wouldn’t you agree?   I believe he was also a catcher back in the day so he probably has a pretty good idea of the wear and tear of the position.  

Isn't that the gist of the argument? That Hyde is overusing him? Isn't that what we are discussing? Could it be that Hyde might overestimate Adley's resiliency? I'm sure it's NEVER happened before.

Look, I'm a big Hyde supporter. I think he should be AL manager of the year. But I don't think he's perfect and I don't think he's without blind spots. 

[Malike]

48 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Ok.  It didn’t work.  Whoohoo!   You’re not wrong feel better.  It’s just that you’re theory about him “looking tired” holds no water as the current hot streak began during a stretch when he was supposedly already tired and in the 7th game of 8 full games played in a row.

Fans say teams have no fire when the offense slumps.  They say players look tired when they aren’t hitting.  Now he’s hitting.  All of a sudden with one week to go in a long season, he no longer looks tired to you?   Or he still looks tired but he’s managing to have, by far, his most doubles in a month, his highest OPS, and with one more home run, tie or better his most homers and RBI in any one month.

I argued earlier in the season that he was getting plenty of days off via the DH and he got even more days off from catching in July and August because of the heat and because McCann started to hit.  
 

When he doesn’t hit people complain he’s been overused so after two hot weeks you bet I’m bringing it up because they are pretty quiet now.

Nobody but you has been quiet. You never miss an opportunity for an "I told you so" moment, though. I generally don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but meh, do you. He's been used more than any catcher in baseball, his defense has been sloppy, his bat has been bad for long stretches, he hits a few balls in the past week and here you are, I TOLD YOU SO. Good job! You win!

[RZNJ]

12 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Isn't that the gist of the argument? That Hyde is overusing him? Isn't that what we are discussing? Could it be that Hyde might overestimate Adley's resiliency? I'm sure it's NEVER happened before.

Look, I'm a big Hyde supporter. I think he should be AL manager of the year. But I don't think he's perfect and I don't think he's without blind spots. 

Rutschman is finishIng the year strong.  IMO, Hyde has a better feel and less blind spots regarding Rutschman than anyone around here and the second half of September is proof of that.   Rutschman was/is having a subpar year compared to many expectations.   There are many reasons for slumps and poor seasons.   Many latched on the “tired/overused” reason.   For someone who should be worn down to the ground he looks pretty good in late September.

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, Malike said:

Nobody but you has been quiet. You never miss an opportunity for an "I told you so" moment, though. I generally don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but meh, do you. He's been used more than any catcher in baseball, his defense has been sloppy, his bat has been bad for long stretches, he hits a few balls in the past week and here you are, I TOLD YOU SO. Good job! You win!

His defense may have been sloppy and his bat may have been below average for long stretches.   That doesn’t mean it was because he was worn out.

 

[Malike]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

His defense may have been sloppy and his bat may have been below average for long stretches.   That doesn’t mean it was because he was worn out.

 

You're acting like it's out of the realm of possibility that in his first full season, playing as much as he does he's not worn down some, which was what I said. You had to take it to the extreme (shocker) and say that people said he was run into the ground, which was disingenuous of you, but again, it's how you roll.

I argue with 60-year-old children all day at work, I refuse to do it here. I concede to your expertise, he's completely fresh and hasn't looked tired at all this season. You've got a great eye for this stuff!

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, Malike said:

You're acting like it's out of the realm of possibility that in his first full season, playing as much as he does he's not worn down some, which was what I said. You had to take it to the extreme (shocker) and say that people said he was run into the ground, which was disingenuous of you, but again, it's how you roll.

I argue with 60-year-old children all day at work, I refuse to do it here. I concede to your expertise, he's completely fresh and hasn't looked tired at all this season. You've got a great eye for this stuff!

Funny that you called me a baby yet you’re the one doing all of the crying.  LOL.    Carry on.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Do we really know  "that playing DH is (not) all that tiring. " I'm not picking on you, @Frobby. I'm just saying that the difference between a real day off, where you don't have to prepare for the game, and DH may be more than you think.. You don't have to study film on the pitchers. You don't have to prep for the hitters. You get a day off. Both physically and mentally that is different from DHing. 

As far as I know, none of us have DHed in the MLB. How do we know whether it is a 2 or a 5 on the "tiring-meter?"

I don’t know.  Just giving my own guess. I do know that playing catcher is extremely physically demanding and mentally taxing, and even hitting is harder on the day a player is catching.  So I’ll stick with my 2 out of 10 estimate, and if others want to disagree, feel free. 

[Say O!]

1 hour ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Isn't that the gist of the argument? That Hyde is overusing him? Isn't that what we are discussing? Could it be that Hyde might overestimate Adley's resiliency? I'm sure it's NEVER happened before.

Look, I'm a big Hyde supporter. I think he should be AL manager of the year. But I don't think he's perfect and I don't think he's without blind spots. 

IIRC, there was a line in an article this summer that basically said Hyde gets suggested lineups everyday from the front office / analytics department.  So any “overuse” criticism has to be directed there too.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Say O!

[dystopia]

14 minutes ago, Say O! said:

IIRC, there was a line in an article this summer that basically said Hyde gets suggested lineups everyday from the front office / analytics department.  So any “overuse” criticism has to be directed there too.

That would certainly explain why O’Hearn is not allowed to hit against a LHP ever. 

[Royle]

Adley’s going to reach base 250+ times this season.  Joe Mauer did that 4 times.  Mike Piazza did it twice. Johnny Bench once.

Buster Posey never did.  Neither did Carlton Fisk, Gary Carter, Yadier Molina,  Jorge Posada or Ivan Rodriguez.  

[Moose Milligan]

2 hours ago, Royle said:

Adley’s going to reach base 250+ times this season.  Joe Mauer did that 4 times.  Mike Piazza did it twice. Johnny Bench once.

Buster Posey never did.  Neither did Carlton Fisk, Gary Carter, Yadier Molina,  Jorge Posada or Ivan Rodriguez.  

That’s an interesting benchmark, especially with guys like Bench and Piazza who defined power hitting for catchers. 

Some will say that means he played too much this season, though. 

[turtlebowl]

I think he could be mentally exhausted as much as physically exhausted. He has a lot on his plate and he is probably just learning now how to prioritize everything.

Saying that, I do believe he is the type of hitter that needs to learn who he is at the major league level. I think if he decided to focus on getting on base he could be a .300 plus guy with over .400 OBP. I think he knows he needs to sacrifice some of that skill to hit for more power. It’s possible he slumps when he kind of gets himself on the extreme side of either of those 2 approaches. I’m betting that he will find the sweet spot in his approach moving forward and will maximize his abilities.

Edited September 26, 2023 by turtlebowl

[Aristotelian]

11 minutes ago, turtlebowl said:

I think he could be mentally exhausted as much as physically exhausted. He has a lot on his plate and he is probably just learning now how to prioritize everything.

Saying that, I do believe he is the type of hitter that needs to learn who he is at the major league level. I think if he decided to focus on getting on base he could be a .300 plus guy with over .400 OBP. I think he knows he needs to sacrifice some of that skill to hit for more power. It’s possible he slumps when he kind of gets himself on the extreme side of either of those 2 approaches. I’m betting that he will find the sweet spot in his approach moving forward and will maximize his abilities.

He is having his best month of the season in September without any change in usage. This whole worn down/tired/overused narrative needs to stop. .917 OPS is not the output of an exhausted player.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

He is having his best month of the season in September without any change in usage. This whole worn down/tired/overused narrative needs to stop. .917 OPS is not the output of an exhausted player.

How many days off did he have the first 2-3 months of the season?

They have most certainly changed his usage.

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

How many days off did he have the first 2-3 months of the season?

They have most certainly changed his usage.

Not much, but some.  I broke down his days off somewhere earlier in this thread.  I’ll see if I can dig it up.  

Edit: From early August:

March/April (28 team games): 20 starts at C, 2 finished as a defensive sub.  7 starts at DH.  1 game in which he pinch hit (also subbed on defense).  Started 27/28, pinch hit in the other.

May (28 team games): 19 starts at C, 2 finished as a defensive sub.  6 starts at DH.  2 games in which he pinch hit, one of which he also came in as a defensive sub.   Started 25/28, played 27/28.

June (24 team games): 17 starts at C, 1 finished as a defensive sub.  5 starts at DH.  Started 22/24, played 22/24.

July (26 team games): 17 starts at C.  6 starts at DH.  Came in once as a PH.  23/26 starts, 24/26 played.

August (4 games): 2 starts at C.  2 starts at DH.  4/4 games started.  

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Frobby