Gunnar Henderson 2023

[Bemorewins]

Just now, maybenxtyr said:

They have to be better than the player they are replacing...not be ROY candidates right away.

No they have to get better results than the guy that they are replacing. 

I don't think it's fair to these young players to expect immediate success.

If it took all of those guys that I cited some time to adjust/acclimate for to this level, then I believe that the data points that Elias and Sig use for comps and to project would suggest that it is going to take a little time for most guys (even the very best).

[owknows]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

I respect that validity of that perspective. I believe that Elias has tried to measure things in a way so that he doesn't cause negative impact on the club winning. 

It appears that the "one prospect at a time" approach is what he is doing and from the results that we have gotten, I can't say that he is wrong. 

Now that Gunnar has it going, I expect Elias to bring up the next prospect either Cowser or Westburg. But I don't see him bringing both at the same time.

I'm a pretty big Elias fan.

He drafts outrageously well... he's built one helluva farm... and he's picked some pieces out of the dumpster and turned them into real MLB players...

But my quibble with him... is that he still feels the need to fill out the roster with reclamation projects and journeymen FA's... instead of promoting the gems that he has developed. The result is AAA banging their head against the ceiling... and the next levels down in the system are beginning to experience the same problem.

We don't need dumpster fodder now. We're not that team any more.

[Bemorewins]

10 minutes ago, owknows said:

I'm a pretty big Elias fan.

He drafts outrageously well... he's built one helluva farm... and he's picked some pieces out of the dumpster and turned them into real MLB players...

But my quibble with him... is that he still feels the need to fill out the roster with reclamation projects and journeymen FA's... instead of promoting the gems that he has developed. The result is AAA banging their head against the ceiling... and the next levels down in the system are beginning to experience the same problem.

We don't need dumpster fodder now. We're not that team any more.

I agree with you for the most part, but his approach appears to be attempting to keep the team's floor high enough so that the young guys/prospects development does come at the expense of W's and L's. It seems that he wanted to make sure that Adley was fully adjusted/acclimated before he brought up Gunnar. And it seems that he wanted to make sure that Gunnar was fully acclimated before he brings up the next guy. 

I can't argue with the results that he has gotten doing things this way.

[IPlayGM]

I understand the argument that x minor league player won’t come up and outperform y established starter, and for the most part that might be true. But look at what Gunnar did while he struggled through his growth…he provided positive value because of his approach. And by all accounts, Westburg and Cowser have similar approaches, meaning they work counts, see pitches and get on base. So for me, I am more than happy to have them on the roster now so that by August we have the best lineup possible. I envision a lineup with all those guys in it in September as a freakin scary lineup that has a mix of patience and power that no one wants to face. That only happens if these guys get up here soon and start learning. They can be sheltered by the Fraziers and the others getting ABs to help them. But the time has come.

[tntoriole]

12 minutes ago, IPlayGM said:

I understand the argument that x minor league player won’t come up and outperform y established starter, and for the most part that might be true. But look at what Gunnar did while he struggled through his growth…he provided positive value because of his approach. And by all accounts, Westburg and Cowser have similar approaches, meaning they work counts, see pitches and get on base. So for me, I am more than happy to have them on the roster now so that by August we have the best lineup possible. I envision a lineup with all those guys in it in September as a freakin scary lineup that has a mix of patience and power that no one wants to face. That only happens if these guys get up here soon and start learning. They can be sheltered by the Fraziers and the others getting ABs to help them. But the time has come.

Unless they trade one or more of them for pitching as has been discussed in other threads. 

[IPlayGM]

4 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Unless they trade one or more of them for pitching as has been discussed in other threads. 

I guess that is a possibility, but I feel upgrading on offense could be equal to more valuable than pitching at this current moment.

[Jagwar]

3 hours ago, owknows said:

I'm a pretty big Elias fan.

He drafts outrageously well... he's built one helluva farm... and he's picked some pieces out of the dumpster and turned them into real MLB players...

But my quibble with him... is that he still feels the need to fill out the roster with reclamation projects and journeymen FA's... instead of promoting the gems that he has developed. The result is AAA banging their head against the ceiling... and the next levels down in the system are beginning to experience the same problem.

We don't need dumpster fodder now. We're not that team any more.

Elias began his tenure with an organization that was complete poop. He has turned it into a stronger organization for sure, primarily through drafting position players. 

But I would suggest that he cannot be considered as a guru until he builds up pitching in the organization. There is really no pitcher in the minors that he acquired that I would consider a can't miss prospect.   

[vab]

The bottom line is they just don't believe in putting these everyday player prospects (Cowser, Westburg, Norby, Ortiz)  into backup roles if they don't have to. At least not on a team that's in contention like this one. You can agree or disagree but that should be clear by now. I think Cowser would have gotten the call when Mullins went down but he was just coming off the IL and Hicks has worked out so far.  With what he started with and where this team is now, Elias gets the benefit of the doubt from me. 

[Sydnor]

 

[Moose Milligan]

OPS up to .804. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

OPS up to .804. 

It was .711 less than a week ago.

[Just Regular]

wRC+ deficit to Josh Jung down to 7 points.     Gunnar has 2/1 K/BB compared to Jung's 4/1 K/BB for forward going, and a baserunning edge.    Fangraphs defense does have him lagging Jung by a lot.

Yoshida is frontrunner if he stays near 300/400/500 and no one gets to his neighborhood, but I do believe some voters would factor in the Age thing if it is close.     Hunter Brown has cooled off some.

[Billy F-Face3]

I liked how Gunnar responded  when he came back to the dugout after the KC right fielder robbed him of a hit and Tyler Wells encouraged him about the swing. It was still an out. Gunnar was like, "Needs more pushups. "

Next few at bats he blasts the longest home run ever recorded on Eutaw Street in a official game in the entire 31 year history of Candem Yards.

[Sports Guy]

Statcast numbers are looking good although we need to see the OAA get better. I do believe it has gotten better since earlier in the year though.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/gunnar-henderson-683002?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb

[Just Regular]

The Yankees probably have to ride it out with Anthony Volpe.     Their first two months this year has basically been the road Elias has not taken.    I do believe the Yankees will get a benefit giving these reps as the season goes along with a young, talented player, but certainly for today the NYY SS production is some of why we are ahead of them.

From BP this morning:

Through Saturday, his on-base percentage was .261 and his 68 DRC+ is the lowest in MLB (minimum 200 plate appearances). His big moment of arrival is running behind schedule.

This is dire for the Yankees on several levels. The club snubbed their noses at the outstanding free-agent shortstop groups over the last two offseasons to keep the job open for the seventh-best overall prospect as per the 2023 preseason Top 101.