AL team to watch: White Sox

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

The Nationals were a buying team when they traded for Eaton, not a selling team.  They traded Giolito for someone who could help them win "now" -- which is not what the White Sox would be doing if they trade Cease now.  That was part of the point of my post.

I’m not really following you.  There certainly have been plenty of pitchers at roughly Cease’s level traded.  

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Yes. Good ones! I'm sure there are more that we could come up with if we really thought about.

I don't think it is an unprecedented idea.

Bedard comes to mind.  Not sure if Pablo Lopez was quite at that level, but certainly pretty young and cost controlled.  

[Bemorewins]

Just now, Frobby said:

Bedard comes to mind.  Not sure if Pablo Lopez was quite at that level, but certainly pretty young and cost controlled.  

You are on a roll my friend. Keep em coming...lol

[bpilktree]

The Cardinals fit in the same category as White Sox with higher hopes and so far not playing like a playoff contention team.  If they are still playing poorly in July they have a few starters that could make sense and not cost as much as a guy like Cease.  I don’t think Elias wants to get rid of any of the top prospects at this point and may look for smaller rental type player then after the season look to move one of the guys that will see a big jump in arbitration like Mullins or Mateo for a controlled starter.   The Cardinals are 10 games out right now and playing as bad as anyone in National league.  They have a few starters that would fit that rental type trade I feel Elias will make over a big time acquisition like Cease would be.  Jordan Montgomery and Jack Flaherty could be options.  

[EddeeEddee]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Blake Snell?  Chris Sale?

 

14 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

The Eduardo Rodriguez and Hader trades are not really comparable to the situations that we were discussing here. Neither was a top 10 prospects in the game at any time, let alone a #1.

The only trade that I can think of is maybe Sunny Gray, but he was coming off a poor year prior. Luis Castillo had 1 year left before FA I believe. Maybe back in the day Pedro Martinez from the Expos to the RedSox? Johan Santana to the Mets?

I think Sonny, Castillo and Pedro were all close to (less than two years away from) free agency, pressuring their teams to sell.  And Santana I think had already passed free agency.  I don't think any of these guys really compare to a possible Cease trade because I can't see the WS feeling pressure to sell yet.  One interesting comparison could be when the Expos traded Randy Johnson to the Mariners for Mark Langston -- a terrible trade for the Expos.

[EddeeEddee]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Blake Snell?  Chris Sale?

 

14 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

The Eduardo Rodriguez and Hader trades are not really comparable to the situations that we were discussing here. Neither was a top 10 prospects in the game at any time, let alone a #1.

The only trade that I can think of is maybe Sunny Gray, but he was coming off a poor year prior. Luis Castillo had 1 year left before FA I believe. Maybe back in the day Pedro Martinez from the Expos to the RedSox? Johan Santana to the Mets?

I think Sonny, Castillo and Pedro were all close to (less than two years away from) free agency, pressuring their teams to sell.  And Santana I think had already passed free agency.  I don't think any of these guys really compare to a possible Cease trade because I can't see the WS feeling pressure to sell yet.  One interesting comparison could be when the Expos traded Randy Johnson to the Mariners for Mark Langston -- a terrible trade for the Expos.

[EddeeEddee]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m not really following you.  There certainly have been plenty of pitchers at roughly Cease’s level traded.  

I can tell you're not following me because you're ignoring the distinction between teams that are buying and teams that are selling.  That's the main part of my point.

[sportsfan8703]

6 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

The Cardinals fit in the same category as White Sox with higher hopes and so far not playing like a playoff contention team.  If they are still playing poorly in July they have a few starters that could make sense and not cost as much as a guy like Cease.  I don’t think Elias wants to get rid of any of the top prospects at this point and may look for smaller rental type player then after the season look to move one of the guys that will see a big jump in arbitration like Mullins or Mateo for a controlled starter.   The Cardinals are 10 games out right now and playing as bad as anyone in National league.  They have a few starters that would fit that rental type trade I feel Elias will make over a big time acquisition like Cease would be.  Jordan Montgomery and Jack Flaherty could be options.  

Yeah, but the Cardinals are playing poorly because those pitchers are performing poorly. 
 

We’re just going to have to see what happens come trade deadline.  If we’re still in this that means there are only two spots remaining in the WC. Toronto and NYY currently. So that leaves LAA, SEA, CWS, BOS, and one of Clev/Minn as possible sellers just in the AL. Those teams were all viewed “trying to win” in the offseason. 

[EddeeEddee]

32 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Blake Snell?  Chris Sale?

Weren't they both close to free agency?  That's the other part of my point, Dylan Cease is not. 

[EddeeEddee]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Bedard comes to mind.  Not sure if Pablo Lopez was quite at that level, but certainly pretty young and cost controlled.  

Except I believe Bedard was close to free agency (within 2 years).  He's a also a good example of a team overtrading for a pitcher.  The O's fleeced the Mariners in that trade. 

Pablo Lopez may be the best example.  I can't tell if he was close to free agency when Miami traded him.  I think Miami was just one of those rare teams that had more than enough pitchers to trade and badly needed bats -- which is not a situation the White Sox are in.  

[EddeeEddee]

34 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

No the White Sox are out of it already, they are 8-21. This season is over for them. They are down at the bottom with the likes of the Royals, A's, Nationals, and Rockies.

That's my point.  When the Nationals traded Giolito they were in the playoff hunt -- unlike if the WS traded Cease this season.  

[Bemorewins]

17 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

The Cardinals fit in the same category as White Sox with higher hopes and so far not playing like a playoff contention team.  If they are still playing poorly in July they have a few starters that could make sense and not cost as much as a guy like Cease.  I don’t think Elias wants to get rid of any of the top prospects at this point and may look for smaller rental type player then after the season look to move one of the guys that will see a big jump in arbitration like Mullins or Mateo for a controlled starter.   The Cardinals are 10 games out right now and playing as bad as anyone in National league.  They have a few starters that would fit that rental type trade I feel Elias will make over a big time acquisition like Cease would be.  Jordan Montgomery and Jack Flaherty could be options.  

The White Sox are already out of it. It would take close to a miracle for them just to get back to .500. Again, as I have mentioned several times today in this thread, I don't understand the cost issue regarding Cease. We have NINE tope 100 prospects. What are they going to want, 3 at most?

As far as the part of your post that I highlighted, I wouldn't put it past the awful, evil Angelos to try some crazy cheap mess like that. If they trade Mullins and/or Mateo in the offseason, that's it for me and I'm done. Because with that type of organizational management/structure/modus of operation; we will NEVER win anything. And being a fan of this team would be an exercise in indefinite futility.

As far as the Cardinals are concerned, the only pieces that they have that I would want are expensive and position players (3B and 1B). They don't have much else, thus why they stink. No I don't want Jordan Montgomery. Jack Flaherty is MEH to me. I would much rather go for a true #1 type.

[Bemorewins]

7 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

That's my point.  When the Nationals traded Giolito they were in the playoff hunt -- unlike if the WS traded Cease this season.  

I think that I hear you saying, that the White Sox may not be interested in trading Cease?

That could be true. But they only have 2 seasons left with him and they are almost assuredly going to sell off other pieces like Giolito, Clevinger, Lynn (if they can), Grandal and maybe Anderson and Moncado. What would make them believe that they are going to compete next year, with way less pieces than they have now? There best bet with the kind of roster they have now, particularly the shape of their rotation and the condition of their bullpen would be to sell. They are not going to win a World Series in Cease's final 2 years, they are nowhere close.

[Moose Milligan]

I don’t want to watch the White Sox. 

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don’t want to watch the White Sox. 

Luckily none of us have to...lol

At least not until they come to Camden.