What if Mateo and Urias are part of the future?

[TommyPickles]

In 2022, Mateo and Urias had a combined 7.0 rWAR at a combined age of 55

In 2023, Mateo and Urias are on pace for a 12.8 rWAR season (sure to come down a bit) at a combined age of 57

 

I'm pretty high on both of these players. I think most of us see them as likable stopgaps before the likes of Gunnar, Ortiz, Westburg, Norby, Holiday, and others succeed them. But my question is, what if, instead of this being their last year as regulars, we kept them both on the 26-man roster until they were free agents (Urias 2027), (Mateo 2026)? Jackson Holliday isn't expected to arrive until 2025. There would still be two other infield spots up for grabs on the 26-man roster. This could open up enticing prospects to be traded. Could this duo wind up putting together careers approaching Melvin Mora (28.3 career WAR) and Brian Roberts (29.5 Career WAR)?

 

In 2003, Roberts and Mora had a combined 7.4 rWAR at a combined age of 56

In 2004, Roberts and Mora had a combined 8.0 rWAR at a combined age of 58

In 2005, Roberts and Mora had a combined 11.6 rWAR at a combined age of 60

In 2006, Roberts and Mora had a combined 5.5 rWAR at a combined age of 62

In 2007, Roberts and Mora had a combined 6.3 rWAR at a combined age of 64

In 2008, Roberts and More had a combined 7.2 rWAR at a combined age of 66.

 

Now, I know this isn't a perfect comparison. For one, Roberts and Mora are five years apart in age, while Mateo and Urias are only a year apart. But with both Mateo (27) and Urias (28) still so relatively young, and both showing versatility, I'm wondering:

Could they both be part of the future?

[TommyPickles]

Damnit. Typo in the thread title. Should say:

"What if Mateo and Urias are part of the future?"

[HandsomeQuack]

I like 'em. While they should both be available for the right price, I wouldn't be desperate to shop them around. But yeah, I would certainly like to see Urias usurp Frazier as the regular 2B in the short term.

[Frobby]

So many options, all of them good.  

[Bemorewins]

Mateo right now looks like he has reached his superstar potential so you leave him alone and just let him keep crushing it until the time comes when Holiday has arrived.

Urias is a different case and should not be lumped into the category with Mateo. He is a very solid, dependable, steady ball player. But he has nowhere near the ceiling as Mateo. We however, have several minor league AAA infielders who are at his talent level or maybe even beyond. You have two options with Urias. - I) You take him and package him as part of a trade and then bring Ortiz or Westburg (which ever one you don’t trade along with Ortiz) and you bring them up to cover 2B. OR 2) [which would not be my preferred option] You trade Gunnar as part of a package to get the big pitching piece that you need. Then you allow Urias to man 3B until Mayo comes up and takes overs for him.

[orioles22]

22 minutes ago, HandsomeQuack said:

I like 'em. While they should both be available for the right price, I wouldn't be desperate to shop them around. But yeah, I would certainly like to see Urias usurp Frazier as the regular 2B in the short term.

I just don't know if it matters that much who plays second between Urias and Frazier, especially since Urias is so good at third. I just hope to see Ortiz there by August or at least by March.

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

I just don't know if it matters that much who plays second between Urias and Frazier, especially since Urias is so good at third. I just hope to see Ortiz there by August or at least by March.

What if we need to trade Ortiz? Is that okay with you if he needs to be part of a package in order to get the top of the rotation starter that we need?

[Sanity Check]

They will both become more expensive earlier than the guys in the minor leagues that we also like, and we know how cheap this organization is, right? 

I think they'd prefer similar production from an Ortiz or a Westburg (although similar production is never a guarantee), but I can see a scenario where the O's end up trading Urias and/or Mateo in their arbitration years to fill other holes, while bringing up Ortiz and Westburg/Norby to backfill them.  As long as both continue to deliver major league level results, they should be marketable.  This past off-season, I'm not sure Urias or Mateo would have netted us much.  Maybe next year, or the year after that, they will.

Now, if Mateo continues to develop or play consistently at the level he is playing at now, then I'd really have to re-think whether I'd be willing to let him go, especially if he is the real deal. 

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

They will both become more expensive earlier than the guys in the minor leagues that we also like, and we know how cheap this organization is, right? 

I think they'd prefer similar production from an Ortiz or a Westburg (although similar production is never a guarantee), but I can see a scenario where the O's end up trading Urias and/or Mateo in their arbitration years to fill other holes, while bringing up Ortiz and Westburg/Norby to backfill them.  As long as both continue to deliver major league level results, they should be marketable.  This past off-season, I'm not sure Urias or Mateo would have netted us much.  Maybe next year, or the year after that, they will.

Now, if Mateo continues to develop or play consistently at the level he is playing at now, then I'd really have to re-think whether I'd be willing to let him go, especially if he is the real deal. 

I believe that Ortiz will be a good/solid Major Leaguer. He does not have anywhere near the ceiling of Mateo. And on his best/hottest days, I don’t think that he can give you what Mateo is doing right now. (Not that it is realistic to think that Mateo will do this all year as that would be the best player in baseball. But if he is 2/3 of this player, I think that is still well beyond Ortiz.) The only player with a talent profile in the minor leagues who is a SS who has an ultra high ceiling is Holiday. 

IMO - It would be foolhardy to trade Mateo until Holiday is ready. 

[Pickles]

It's a possiblity. It may make more sense to trade them; it may make more sense to keep them.

Good organizations are going to stay flexible and give themselves as many options as possible.

That's why so much of this hurry up and trade them, and hurry up and hand spots to prospects, talk was so misplaced this offseason.

[Sanity Check]

5 minutes ago, Pickles said:

It's a possiblity. It may make more sense to trade them; it may make more sense to keep them.

Good organizations are going to stay flexible and give themselves as many options as possible.

That's why so much of this hurry up and trade them, and hurry up and hand spots to prospects, talk was so misplaced this offseason.

It'll become a major issue when they have to protect them all on the 40-man roster of risk losing them.  I wonder if anyone knows who in our minor league system must be protected at the end of this year or exposed to the rule 5 draft.   I may start a separate thread on that one.

[orioles22]

33 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

What if we need to trade Ortiz? Is that okay with you if he needs to be part of a package in order to get the top of the rotation starter that we need?

I could handle trading anyone but Adley and Rodriguez if it brings in a solid starter or two. I 'd rather keep Ortiz though if possible. I think he will be an elite defender and perhaps an all-star at second the way he hits. I'd rank him ahead of Mateo, as much as I like Mateo, for the long term. I also hope we can keep Norby as a DH, left fielder and backup infielder.

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

I could handle trading anyone but Adley and Rodriguez if it brings in a solid starter or two. I 'd rather keep Ortiz thought if possible. I think he will be an elite defender and perhaps an all-star at second the way he hits. I'd rank him ahead of Mateo, as much as I like Mateo, for the long term. I also hope we can keep Norby as a DH, left fielder and backup infielder.

It’s sound like you really like Ortiz and think highly of him. I’m with you completely on Adley and Grayson being the only irreplaceable pieces in our org.

However, I think that we are going to need much more than a “solid starter” in order to advance in the postseason.

Now where I strongly disagree with you is on Norby’s place in the outfield or even DH for that matter. Our outfield is 2/3 full now. We will need to make a place for Cowser who is a much better/higher ranked prospect than Norby. As far as DH goes that’s Kejstad’s. Who again is a much better hitter/prospect than Norby. 

If we have to trade one of them, then I guess that could make a place for Norby. But even then, what happens to Westburg?

[Sports Guy]

They aren’t and it has nothing to do with whether they are good players or not.

[emmett16]

Not sure about the future but there are darn important to the present.