There's NO "holding the Mayo"

[ChosenOne21]

4 hours ago, 24fps said:

Whining?  At this point in the season it's virtually impossible to make a persuasive argument for continuing to play Mateo and Frazier every day.  Who broke camp this season is about as relevant as Adam Frazier's veteranocity.

Jorge Mateo and Adam Frazier have been worth 0.8 and 1 WAR in just under half a season. There's no way to get them off the roster without losing them. If the prospects we bring up struggle, we might actually make the team worse this year when we're doing excellent and have a shot at a deep playoff run. Mateo has been underperforming his expected stats a little, so there's reason to believe he'll improve some over what we've seen recently.

I'd still go with youth because we have so many infield prospects I can't believe they'd all struggle, and because it's good to have one eye on the future even in seasons where you're making a playoff run, but I find the argument I made at least somewhat persuasive.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

5 hours ago, now said:

Play the kids! Play the kids!

(I kid.)

[24fps]

12 hours ago, ChosenOne21 said:

Jorge Mateo and Adam Frazier have been worth 0.8 and 1 WAR in just under half a season. There's no way to get them off the roster without losing them. If the prospects we bring up struggle, we might actually make the team worse this year when we're doing excellent and have a shot at a deep playoff run. Mateo has been underperforming his expected stats a little, so there's reason to believe he'll improve some over what we've seen recently.

I'd still go with youth because we have so many infield prospects I can't believe they'd all struggle, and because it's good to have one eye on the future even in seasons where you're making a playoff run, but I find the argument I made at least somewhat persuasive.

Fangraphs has Mateo at 0.7 WAR (-6.1 offense/5.6 defense) and Frazier at 0.0 WAR (-2.8 offense/-6.0 defense).  Not stellar, except Mateo's acknowledged defensive skills have some utility.

I don't see many people seriously advocating just dumping Frazier and Mateo.  Nor am I, but the time has come to stop predicting dire things for the Orioles if those two start to see less playing time.  Mateo clearly has some value on defense and on the basepaths.  Frazier?  You tell me, I'm stumped and praying for a trade.

[MCO'sFan]

I gave the Frazier signing the benefit of the doubt but he isn't hitting (some clutch hits) and he misses more ground balls by mere inches than any 2B in history. 

[24fps]

15 hours ago, tntoriole said:

I would sit Mateo.  The persuasive argument is 3rd best winning percentage in MLB. 

Would you like to lead the cheer?  We're number 3!, we're number 3!...

Meanwhile, how 'bout that Coby Mayo, huh?

[ChosenOne21]

2 hours ago, 24fps said:

Fangraphs has Mateo at 0.7 WAR (-6.1 offense/5.6 defense) and Frazier at 0.0 WAR (-2.8 offense/-6.0 defense).  Not stellar, except Mateo's acknowledged defensive skills have some utility.

I don't see many people seriously advocating just dumping Frazier and Mateo.  Nor am I, but the time has come to stop predicting dire things for the Orioles if those two start to see less playing time.  Mateo clearly has some value on defense and on the basepaths.  Frazier?  You tell me, I'm stumped and praying for a trade.

FWIW, Baseball Reference has them at 0.8 and 1.0 WAR

[RarityFlaherty]

2 hours ago, 24fps said:

Fangraphs has Mateo at 0.7 WAR (-6.1 offense/5.6 defense) and Frazier at 0.0 WAR (-2.8 offense/-6.0 defense).  Not stellar, except Mateo's acknowledged defensive skills have some utility.

I don't see many people seriously advocating just dumping Frazier and Mateo.  Nor am I, but the time has come to stop predicting dire things for the Orioles if those two start to see less playing time.  Mateo clearly has some value on defense and on the basepaths.  Frazier?  You tell me, I'm stumped and praying for a trade.

Frazier has an .853 OPS with runners on base. He’s our second best hitter behind Santander, in that regard. If any of you guys with access to his career numbers want to look it up, I’d imagine you’ll find an above average player when it comes to hitting with runners on base. That’s just the player that he’s been his whole career. 

[tntoriole]

3 hours ago, 24fps said:

Would you like to lead the cheer?  We're number 3!, we're number 3!...

Meanwhile, how 'bout that Coby Mayo, huh?

We could be Oakland fans…so yes I will happily  .

.We are number 3, we are number 3 !!!  
 

If at game 162 we are still number 3, then the magic will continue 

i like mayo with bacon,lettuce and tomato 

[Roy Firestone]

20 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

Roy, I'm sure you agree that the O's have lots of really exciting prospects still in the minors--Mayo, Holliday, Cowser, Westburg, Kjerstad...it's an impressive list.  Do you think the O's should hold on to all of these guys, or do you think they should look to include one or more of them in a trade for a legit #1 starter (assuming there is one available at the trade deadline)?  

its inevitable that someone will be moved, maybe a few will be. I just  hope it doesn't turn into an embarrassment like we've seen before...we move a player and he becomes an All Star...But back to Mayo, I think he's be a good prospect for 1b (He's 6'5 and agile) or DH...but he can also play 3b reasonably well...hes still a year away from even being considered..

[Roy Firestone]

[Alasdaire]

1 hour ago, Roy Firestone said:

its inevitable that someone will be moved, maybe a few will be. I just  hope it doesn't turn into an embarrassment like we've seen before...we move a player and he becomes an All Star...But back to Mayo, I think he's be a good prospect for 1b (He's 6'5 and agile) or DH...but he can also play 3b reasonably well...hes still a year away from even being considered..

The question with Coby is whether he can stick at a position where his plus (arguably plus plus) arm can be utilized.

Of course, the logical spot is the hot corner. And if he was a member of many other franchises, he would likely be brought up as a 3B and only moved off if he couldn't handle it. But with the O's, it feels almost like an inevitability that he's not going to be on the left side of the infield given the bevy of talent they have there.

Ideally he would be quick enough to play a corner outfield spot so that the arm could serve as a deterrent if nothing else. But the O's haven't tried him there at all. They've been putting him at 1B occasionally, which is fine I suppose, but it would feel like settling given his arm strength.

[RarityFlaherty]

28 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

The question with Coby is whether he can stick at a position where his plus (arguably plus plus) arm can be utilized.

Of course, the logical spot is the hot corner. And if he was a member of many other franchises, he would likely be brought up as a 3B and only moved off if he couldn't handle it. But with the O's, it feels almost like an inevitability that he's not going to be on the left side of the infield given the bevy of talent they have there.

Ideally he would be quick enough to play a corner outfield spot so that the arm could serve as a deterrent if nothing else. But the O's haven't tried him there at all. They've been putting him at 1B occasionally, which is fine I suppose, but it would feel like settling given his arm strength.

Yeah I agree. I’d love to see them try him out in RF. I’d love to see a future team with Mayo and Kjerstad as guys who rotate between 1B/RF/DH. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

Yeah I agree. I’d love to see them try him out in RF. I’d love to see a future team with Mayo and Kjerstad as guys who rotate between 1B/RF/DH. 

I think it is really hard to be as good at two positions as it is to be good at just one.

So I'd rather if, for the most part, they stayed at one position.

I also think that changing up the person playing first could make it more difficult for the other infielders.

[Yossarian]

39 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

The question with Coby is whether he can stick at a position where his plus (arguably plus plus) arm can be utilized.

Of course, the logical spot is the hot corner. And if he was a member of many other franchises, he would likely be brought up as a 3B and only moved off if he couldn't handle it. But with the O's, it feels almost like an inevitability that he's not going to be on the left side of the infield given the bevy of talent they have there.

Ideally he would be quick enough to play a corner outfield spot so that the arm could serve as a deterrent if nothing else. But the O's haven't tried him there at all. They've been putting him at 1B occasionally, which is fine I suppose, but it would feel like settling given his arm strength.

He has to be at least a quick and athletic as Santander, doesn't he?

[24fps]

38 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

The question with Coby is whether he can stick at a position where his plus (arguably plus plus) arm can be utilized.

Of course, the logical spot is the hot corner. And if he was a member of many other franchises, he would likely be brought up as a 3B and only moved off if he couldn't handle it. But with the O's, it feels almost like an inevitability that he's not going to be on the left side of the infield given the bevy of talent they have there.

Ideally he would be quick enough to play a corner outfield spot so that the arm could serve as a deterrent if nothing else. But the O's haven't tried him there at all. They've been putting him at 1B occasionally, which is fine I suppose, but it would feel like settling given his arm strength.

Fangraphs, when they wrote their prospect reports before the start of the season, had this to say:
 

Quote

 

Drafted and mostly deployed as a third baseman, Mayo has projected as a right fielder since his draft year because of his size.

......

Baltimore has tried him some at second and first base, but because he’ll show you a 70 arm on his best throws and runs pretty well, right field continues to feel like the best long-term fit even though Mayo hasn’t played there yet. The toolset to profile as a 50 in right is arguably already in place, and there’s a chance Mayo ends up with 70 raw at peak and becomes a star out there.

 

So Mayo in RF and Kjerstad at 1B?  Or maybe vice versa.  Whatever shakes out, I don't think 3B is his future so it will be interesting to see if they mover him elsewhere and where