Orioles calling up Westburg.

[Explosivo]

Just now, tntoriole said:

We shall see.  The general expectation here seems to be that Westburg will replace Frazier and will be a key contributor immediately in the middle of a playoff race. 
I have seen rookies have LONG adjustments before .. hopefully he will adjust quickly. 

I highly doubt he overtakes Frazier here. Instead the best method for success if utilizing him in situations that are mitigated as in, against left handed pitching. Give Frazier a breather and put your quality players in best position to succeed. 

[rm5678]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

So... Up for the two LHSPs and back down eventually a la Ortiz, or here to stay?

I personally have no idea at this point.

I believe Westburg, unlike Ortiz, is here to stay and will play regularly. 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

We shall see.  The general expectation here seems to be that Westburg will replace Frazier and will be a key contributor immediately in the middle of a playoff race. 
I have seen rookies have LONG adjustments before .. hopefully he will adjust quickly. 

Some do and some don’t.  And some just never are that good, regardless of what thru did in the minors.   But I am a believer in Westburg.  I saw him in spring training and the guy just looks like he belongs.  

[Explosivo]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Some do and some don’t.  And some just never are that good, regardless of what thru did in the minors.   But I am a believer in Westburg.  I saw him in spring training and the guy just looks like he belongs.  

ortiz seems like trade bait tbh.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Explosivo said:

ortiz seems like trade bait tbh.

I like Ortiz.  He’s almost as good defensively as Mateo, and given regular at bats, I believe he’d be a much better hitter.  My ideal infield would be Westburg at 2B, Ortiz at SS, Henderson at 3B.   

[Explosivo]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I like Ortiz.  He’s almost as good defensively as Mateo, and given regular at bats, I believe he’d be a much better hitter.  My ideal infield would be Westburg at 2B, Ortiz at SS, Henderson at 3B.   

for how long though? Once Holliday is ready? If that's the case, why wouldn't you just roll out Mateo again especially since you could have Urias at third?

Edited June 26, 2023 by Explosivo

[Frobby]

Just now, Explosivo said:

for how long though? Once Holliday is ready?

That’s a problem for another day.  Holliday may be ready sometime next year, or he may not be.   

[Explosivo]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

That’s a problem for another day.  Holliday may be ready sometime next year, or he may not be.   

What leads you to believe he won't be ready next year or at the most the year after? So you're committing to Ortiz as a stopgap? Why not just continue to rollout Mateo? Just strange to completely see Ortiz as the guy until the other guy arrives instead of trading him when he has the possible potential value.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Explosivo

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

What leads you to believe he won't be ready next year or at the most the year after? So you're committing to Ortiz as a stopgap? Why not just continue to rollout Mateo? Just strange to completely see Ortiz as the guy until the other guy arrives instead of trading him when he has the possible potential value.

Ortiz probably would have much more trade value if he was our starting SS for 1.5 seasons than he would if we just traded him now.   And the team would be better in the meantime.  

Now, I’m saying that because I think Ortiz would probably be a decent hitter if given the chance to play.  But he’d have to prove it.  
 

[Sanfran327]

10 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

We shall see.  The general expectation here seems to be that Westburg will replace Frazier and will be a key contributor immediately in the middle of a playoff race. 
I have seen rookies have LONG adjustments before .. hopefully he will adjust quickly. 

I actually did the due diligence for once and went back and read the entire thread to see if someone already made this point, and surprisingly, nobody has brought up the Machado playoff race callup. Not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison (depending on what you think of Westburg, I suppose), but Manny was brought up post All Star break as things were starting to get absolutely white hot in our 2012 playoff race. I'd argue that that was a much more heated and important playoff battle and situation all around than what we are facing right now. Plus, we called up Manny into a position change, to a position that he'd notoriously only played a small handful of times, which nobody had any clue how'd he'd adjust. Of course, he ended up being an impossibly good 3bman, but he didn't contribute with the bat all that much for those last few weeks of 2012, OPSing a modest .739. Not exactly a black hole in the lineup considering his +++++++++ defensive value, but he didn't mash until the following season.

Is it fair to Westburg to compare him to Manny? Depends. He's earned some added scrutiny because he's performed so well for so long at AAA. He's certainly earned the promotion. I don't think that a .739 OPS is a tall order for a guy that's been so hot for so long, but it's a different world up here, and we'll all watch him adjust. FWIW, and for those who continue to say things like "is he really going to come up and out perform XYZ anyway?", I offer this: IMO, the two guys' PT he'll take from the most are Fraizer and Mateo (both solid bench guys), who are OPSing .674 and .611, respectively. I think he matches that comfortably, probably surpasses it by season's end, and gains invaluable experience towards the future of our club in the process, something that neither Fraizer nor Mateo might be a part of beyond 2023.

[tntoriole]

19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Some do and some don’t.  And some just never are that good, regardless of what thru did in the minors.   But I am a believer in Westburg.  I saw him in spring training and the guy just looks like he belongs.  

I hear Bobby Grich tossed around. We would be ecstatic.  He too in 1971 had .336 BA, 159 hits, 1.071 OPS at Rochester while blocked by Davy Johnson 

[Explosivo]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Ortiz probably would have much more trade value if he was our starting SS for 1.5 seasons than he would if we just traded him now.   And the team would be better in the meantime.  

Now, I’m saying that because I think Ortiz would probably be a decent hitter if given the chance to play.  But he’d have to prove it.  
 

I'm going with the timeline that Holliday has provided and like Henderson, I have no doubt. The value diminishes entirely if Ortiz proves he has no power at the MLB level. We've seen multiple prospects that mash at the AAA level but when it comes to MLB, lose it all. So is the value greater as what it could mean vs what it does mean? Add to it that Henderson can play SS and we obviously know Urias can play 3B so what is best? Elias and company know but it's fun to think about.

[Since1984]

2 hours ago, Pat Kelly said:

I suspect part of this is could be about Henderson at SS more.  Mateo to bench.  Westburg subs for  Frazier against LHP, plays 3B against righties, Urias plays 1B against RHP or vice versa.   Urias and Mateo become more spot starters. Ortiz needs PT at SS and AB’s probably benefits from a few more reps in AAA. 
 

Also likely means Mountcastle could be down for awhile or traded. 

I think a trade has to be in the this scenario. We shall see!

[TheWall]

I've seen a lot of speculation that Westburg might take the Ortiz role against LHP and potentially form a platoon with Frazier. I know the sample size isn't huge, but his OPS has been roughly .350 points higher against RHP than LHP between this year and last. Would seem weird to limit him to only facing LHP when his numbers against RHP are the reason he's getting promoted in the first place. 

[NCRaven]

29 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I like Ortiz.  He’s almost as good defensively as Mateo, and given regular at bats, I believe he’d be a much better hitter.  My ideal infield would be Westburg at 2B, Ortiz at SS, Henderson at 3B.   

Would Ortiz hit better than Urias?  Maybe Henderson at short with Westburg and Urias at 2B/3B would be better.