Please stop pitching Cano in the ninth

[Roy Firestone]

2 hours ago, vab said:

The title of this thread should be - "Let's shuffle the deck chairs" which is what taking Cano out of the closer role would amount to. The problem is the starters and I think the time has come to go back to the five-man rotation and get the extra arm back into the 'pen. Not sure who I would take out, Kremer I guess but I don't see what else can be done if the starters are going to continue to go 5 innings or less. 

Five innings? Are you kidding?..Kremer on full rest couldnt even give us 4 innings....and barely got 3 innings tonight against a bad hitting team...we aren't going anywhere with our pitchers , nearly every one of them, gassed...and our hitters cant keep pulling it out without some semblance of pitching..

[OnlyOneOriole]

41 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

Five innings? Are you kidding?..Kremer on full rest couldnt even give us 4 innings....and barely got 3 innings tonight against a bad hitting team...we aren't going anywhere with our pitchers , nearly every one of them, gassed...and our hitters cant keep pulling it out without some semblance of pitching..

Agree and this is why I made the "we can make the playoffs but not win the WS this year" thread.  Our pitchers are just not good enough to carry us through the playoffs AND the WS and win.

 

This team has a lot of heart and a lot of young talent, and more talent on the way.  But for now?  This year?  We have been playing somewhat over our heads in all facets of the game. 

 

Notice as soon as GH and our bullpen faltered even a little as they have the past 2 weeks?  We start losing.  That is because GH is our one and only true superstar and our pitching is VERY thin.

[PsychoBird68]

1 hour ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Agree and this is why I made the "we can make the playoffs but not win the WS this year" thread.  Our pitchers are just not good enough to carry us through the playoffs AND the WS and win.

 

This team has a lot of heart and a lot of young talent, and more talent on the way.  But for now?  This year?  We have been playing somewhat over our heads in all facets of the game. 

 

Notice as soon as GH and our bullpen faltered even a little as they have the past 2 weeks?  We start losing.  That is because GH is our one and only true superstar and our pitching is VERY thin.

Gunnar Henderson hasn't faltered at all, he's got a 999 OPS in the last 15 games and a 908 OPS in September....Our pitchers will be just fine after they get 5 days rest at the end of the year before we start the division series 

[Sanity Check]

Isn't the real problem the fact that Hyde is only having them face three batter each?  We need guys who can get anyone out and last more than 3 freakin' batters.  The O's  are tired and the relievers are not just mostly ineffective, but I think they are also losing confidence.  I agree with the poster(s) who believe we won't go far into the playoffs.  I just don't think we have the quality arms to get us through tough, high leverage situations in a playoff atmosphere.

[tntoriole]

There was a reason Dan Duquette went after Andrew Miller.  Even with Zach Britton being the Felix of 2014 and Darren O’Day being the Cano ..he went and got Andrew Miller which was crucial in getting through Detroit and to the ALCS.   Yes, it cost Eduardo but it was key. 
An equivalent move would have been Josh Hader. 
The way starting pitching is now, you cannot go deep into playoffs without multiple shutdown bullpen pitchers.  Literally we have no BP pitchers that are shutdown.  
Elias strategy of fixing cheap dumpster dives for BP has worked to a point but that was only so with Bautista anchoring it.  Now it has failed.. the Fuji, Lopez additions have failed and the Cano,  Coulombe, Webbs are now gassed and less effective without Bautista

It is what it is but we are going to lose playoff games (and still may yet lose the division) just like Detroit did without getting  Andrew Miller because their BP blew up on them. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

Please tell me which pitcher you trust in the ninth in every single save opportunity besides Cano right now.

[tntoriole]

1 minute ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Please tell me which pitcher you trust in the ninth in every single save opportunity besides Cano right now.

I trust none of our BP pitchers in ANY inning right now without a 5 run or more lead. 

[Sports Guy]

I think everyone just needs to face facts that without Bautista this is a completely different team.

It didn’t come through at first because the team was still able to win but since Boston broke their 6 game win streak on 9/10, the Os are 5-8 and have 2 3 (or more) game losing streaks, which doubled the amount of 3 game losing streaks they had all season.

The bullpen roles have become an issue and everyone being shifted around because of that injury is becoming an issue.

Combine that with starting pitching that isn’t that good after our top 2 guys and you have a really bad scenario.

This team built themselves up early on because of how great the Cano-Bautista duo were. Eventually the offense started to catch up but Bautista, who imo is still the MVO, getting hurt changed the entire dynamic of this team.

Cano is tough to trust in high leverage situations because he simply doesn’t miss enough bats and doesn’t get any Ks any more.

I said at the end of August that I felt they would lose their first playoff series because of the pitching and Bautista’s injury. 
 

The only thing that gives me some hope is that GRod isn’t really slowing down and I expected that to happen.

But overall, I still feel they will be 1 and done. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think we have many, if any, legitimately trustworthy BP arms in the biggest situations in the playoffs and I don’t think we will get more than 6 innings out of any starter and even 6 full innings may be unlikely. We are going to need the pen to get 12-15 outs, at least, per game and I don’t like their chances of doing that while holding a lead.

The Bautista injury just changed everything. If he comes back, maybe that changes but obviously it depends when he comes back and how he looks.

I still think they do enough to win the division and they will get the much needed days off to help set things up but these pitchers will still be what they are and what they are isn’t likely to be good enough.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Etch]

9 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

Stupid thread.

So uncalled for. If you don't like the thread just keep it to yourself. 

[tntoriole]

26 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I think everyone just needs to face facts that without Bautista this is a completely different team.

It didn’t come through at first because the team was still able to win but since Boston broke their 6 game win streak on 9/10, the Os are 5-8 and have 2 3 (or more) game losing streaks, which doubled the amount of 3 game losing streaks they had all season.

The bullpen roles have become an issue and everyone being shifted around because of that injury is becoming an issue.

Combine that with starting pitching that isn’t that good after our top 2 guys and you have a really bad scenario.

This team built themselves up early on because of how great the Cano-Bautista duo were. Eventually the offense started to catch up but Bautista, who imo is still the MVO, getting hurt changed the entire dynamic of this team.

Cano is tough to trust in high leverage situations because he simply doesn’t miss enough bats and doesn’t get any Ks any more.

I said at the end of August that I felt they would lose their first playoff series because of the pitching and Bautista’s injury. 
 

The only thing that gives me some hope is that GRod isn’t really slowing down and I expected that to happen.

But overall, I still feel they will be 1 and done. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think we have many, if any, legitimately trustworthy BP arms in the biggest situations in the playoffs and I don’t think we will get more than 6 innings out of any starter and even 6 full innings may be unlikely. We are going to need the pen to get 12-15, at least, per game and I don’t like their chances of doing that while holding a lead.

The Bautista injury just changed everything. If he comes back, maybe that changes but obviously it depends when he comes back and how he looks.

I still think they do enough to win the division and they will get the much needed days off to help set things up but these pitchers will still be what they are and what they are isn’t likely to be good enough.

Exactly this!!  Agree with every point!  
Dan Duquette seriously outperformed Mike Elias in the trade deadline of 2014 versus 2023 by a country mile in recognizing that even an elite bullpen needs strengthening if you are serious about a championship in today’s game. 

[Bruce510]

The Orioles should send down to AAA or place 2-3 of the exhausted relievers on the IR and call up a couple of minor leaguers to eat relief innings over the next week.

I truly don’t know how they can expect to win the division or advance in the playoffs when the bullpen keeps imploding over and over. Hyde just cannot keep running the same pitchers out there and magically hoping for better results

[banks703]

35 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Cano is tough to trust in high leverage situations because he simply doesn’t miss enough bats and doesn’t get any Ks any more.

This. When Felix went down I suggested that they throw Danny in some save opportunities, Cionel, Hall and Wells also when the matchups warrant it but not to fixate on Cano.

I like Cano as the 7th/8th inning guy but he doesn’t look like he has the chops for closing. His stuff doesn’t get you enough strikeouts and you dang sure don’t want to have to throw him in the tenth or later because the ghost runner will almost guaranteed bag third on him.

It’s frustrating to watch all of the three-batter appearances because of the matching up and to see them not use Cano when he is most appropriately matched. That’s the job of a manager - to put his guys into the best positions to succeed. Cano facing crazy good contact lefties is not putting him in the best position to succeed. 

[Aristotelian]

7 minutes ago, Bruce510 said:

The Orioles should send down to AAA or place 2-3 of the exhausted relievers on the IR and call up a couple of minor leaguers to eat relief innings over the next week.

I truly don’t know how they can expect to win the division or advance in the playoffs when the bullpen keeps imploding over and over. Hyde just cannot keep running the same pitchers out there and magically hoping for better results

Palmer talked about the situation early in the game. Problem is, a lot of these guys aren't available due to the 15 day rule. They messed up by optioning a bunch of guys back to back. I believe the situation is:

Zimmermann available

Krehbiel eligible 9/27

Irvin 9/28

Baker 9/29

Baumann done for year. 

I believe the only guy they can call up today is Zimmermann. I would like to see them DFA Jorge and call him up. But we need to be careful because there is literally no one left on the 40 man after we call up Zimmermann. 

[Il BuonO]

Sending Irvin down was inexcusable. He was pitching pretty well in the rotation, for that matter, when they moved him to the pen. I’d rather see him start a game than Kremer right now. But sending him down while keeping Fujinami and Lopez was a mistake.

[Bahama O's Fan]

Can we do something like bringing up McDermott or Povich for a start and push everyone back? DFA Lopez or someone. Have Flaherty ready to take whatever of the game that they can't finish. Push the starters back one day and give everyone else in the pen a break?