2024 Opening Day Roster

[Sports Guy]

Just now, wildcard said:

When Gunnar and Holliday are holding down two IF spots.  There third spot could be Westburg or Ortiz.   

Urias is will likely make 2 to 3M in arbitration.   Westburg and Ortiz make close to 730K each.

Thank you for posting this..I think there is an Os fan in Sri Lanka who didn’t know this. 

[Sports Guy]

33 minutes ago, Pickles said:

No you specifically said Coulombe was "no good" and cited his 5.6 K rate from 2022.  In 12 innings.  It had nothing to do with the "last 5 or 6 years" as Coulombe had been decent when he pitched in 2022 and 2021.  Now nobody thought he was going to do what he's done, but you immediately wrote him off because of his K rate.  You have reductionist thinking and it leads to bad analysis.

Regarding Mateo, I never said he was an everyday player; I said he deserved the opportunity to play every day going into this season, and in the halcyon days of April, I would have said he deserved to be the starting SS until he proved he wasn't.  Well, he proved he wasn't, and Elias and I apparently came to that decision pretty simultaneously.  I will confess I have continued to argue Mateo has a role on the roster, but I think that argument has only grown stronger over the last month or so.

This is the main problem with trying to interact with you here.  Whenever somebody points out something you said that has proven to be a bad take, you immediately accuse them of "lying," "trolling," or "misrepresenting."   Even when you're being directly quoted verbatim.  And then immediately proceed to misrepresent something that person has said.

The point I'm making here isn't to shine a light on you having a bad take believe it or not.  My point is that exploring extending Means is something a prudent team would be doing and dismissing it as "making no sense" is a myopic take, and likely to be a bad one.  That you cite his lowered K rate this year in a small sample size is what prompts the comparison to the exact same take you had on Coulombe, which was a bad one.

What's a contract he "shouldn't?"  Let's get some numbers here.  A 4/48 is what I proposed.  RZNJ thought it wouldn't be enough.

 
I made multiple posts about the guy before mentioning his K rate in a SSS (which btw was in response to your post about the same SSS that you were riding his D about)

My first post, when you asked why I didn’t think he was any good, references age and CAREER. The next post went a little more in depth on other things.

So yea, it was more about his K rate for one year but seeing as you went back and found this thread, you know that but it didn’t stop you from lying and misrepresenting my opinion.

Yes, I value Ks and missed bats. Are you really going to cry about that and feel like you are proving some point that those matter to me more than most stats? I’ll be more than happy to fall on that sword, since those are traits most teams are valuing at a high level right now, as is evidenced by increasing K rates, velo, etc…

Either way, so f’ing what? Frobby said he wasn’t that great either. are you going to troll him about it too? 

Are you going to just feel that every guy that has largely been a failure in their careers are all of a sudden going to be good signings at age 33?  I’ll tell you this now. I will always scratch my head at signings like that and I really don’t care if that bothers you or not. I’m glad DC has worked out. It’s also far more likely he’s DFA’ed in 2024 than he repeats this season because that’s what his CAREER tells you.

One of your first post to me about Means mentioned his last start and that’s someone you want to keep around. 1 start. We are only talking about SSS but that’s all we have to go on when discussing handing him an immediate 3 year deal. His track record is solid and Im Glad he’s back but we don’t know if he’s going to be the same pitcher post surgery. So far, he’s not.

I have never once said I don’t think the Ks are going to get higher or that he won’t miss more bats. I’m saying we haven’t seen enough to make an idiotic decision of guaranteeing him 3 years as he just gets back from major arm surgery.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Pickles]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 
I made multiple posts about the guy before mentioning his K rate in a SSS (which btw was in response to your post about the same SSS that you were riding his D about)

My first post, when you asked why I didn’t think he was any good, references age and CAREER. The next post went a little more in depth on other things.

So yea, it was more about his K rate for one year but seeing as you went back and found this thread, you know that but it didn’t stop you from lying and misrepresenting my opinion.

Yes, I value Ks and missed bats. Are you really going to cry about that and feel like you are proving some point that those matter to me more than most stats? I’ll be more than happy to fall on that sword, since those are traits most teams are valuing at a high level right now, as is evidenced by increasing K rates, velo, etc…

Either way, so f’ing what? Frobby said he wasn’t that great either. are you going to troll him about it too? 

Are you going to just feel that every guy that has largely been a failure in their careers are all of a sudden going to be good signings at age 33?  I’ll tell you this now. I will always scratch my head at signings like that and I really don’t care if that bothers you or not. I’m glad DC has worked out. It’s also far more likely he’s DFA’ed in 2024 than he repeats this season because that’s what his CAREER tells you.

One of your first post to me about Means mentioned his last start and that’s someone you want to keep around. 1 start. We are only talking about SSS but that’s all we have to go on when discussing handing him an immediate 3 year deal. His track record is solid and Im Glad he’s back but we don’t know if he’s going to be the same pitcher post surgery. So far, he’s not.

I have never once said I don’t think the Ks are going to get higher or that he won’t miss more bats. I’m saying we haven’t seen enough to make an idiotic decision of guaranteeing him 3 years as he just gets back from major arm surgery.

I'm going to ignore all the rest of your histrionics and continue.

So you're saying you wouldn't go above 3/15 extension for John Means?

Edit:  I just can't help myself!  I'm as bad as you!  LOL

I assure you I didn't look up that thread but I remembered it.  I'm glad you linked it because it basically validates my claim.

You: He's "no good."

Me: Eh.  He hasn't been terrible and he's trending well besides the injures.  How's he "no good?"

You: His career and age.

Me: Well he's performed well recently when healthy.  Why does his "career" mean he's "no good?"

You: He didn't strike guys out over 12 innings last year.

Reductionist.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Pickles

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I'm going to ignore all the rest of your histrionics and continue.

So you're saying you wouldn't go above 3/15 extension for John Means?

I’m saying that there isn’t a realistic 3 year contract out there that he would sign that would make me sign him. 
 

If he has a good year next year, he’s likely in line for some kind of a 3/45 type deal,  maybe more depending on how good the year actually is.

There is no reason for him to sign some cheap 3 year contract and it would be stupid to offer him something that would entice him. It makes no sense on either side unless Means doesn’t believe in himself and if that’s the case, I don’t want him anyway.

Of course, I doubt that is how he feels, so that’s not an issue imo. 

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

I’m saying that there isn’t a realistic 3 year contract out there that he would sign that would make me sign him. 
 

If he has a good year next year, he’s likely in line for some kind of a 3/45 type deal,  maybe more depending on how good the year actually is.

There is no reason for him to sign some cheap 3 year contract and it would be stupid to offer him something that would entice him. It makes no sense on either side unless Means doesn’t believe in himself and if that’s the case, I don’t want him anyway.

Of course, I doubt that is how he feels, so that’s not an issue imo. 

If he has a typical Means season next year, he's going to make so much more than 3/45.

[Aristotelian]

If both Means and Santander were to have successful years without contract extensions, could we hit both with QO and get comp picks back? 

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

If both Means and Santander were to have successful years without contract extensions, could we hit both with QO and get comp picks back? 

I can't believe there's a limit on how many comp picks you can get now.  Is there?

[Sports Guy]

20 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I'm going to ignore all the rest of your histrionics and continue.

So you're saying you wouldn't go above 3/15 extension for John Means?

Edit:  I just can't help myself!  I'm as bad as you!  LOL

I assure you I didn't look up that thread but I remembered it.  I'm glad you linked it because it basically validates my claim.

You: He's "no good."

Me: Eh.  He hasn't been terrible and he's trending well besides the injures.  How's he "no good?"

You: His career and age.

Me: Well he's performed well recently when healthy.  Why does his "career" mean he's "no good?"

You: He didn't strike guys out over 12 innings last year.

Reductionist.

It doesn’t validate your claim. You said I said he was no good because of his K rate last year. That’s a lie.

I told You  I didn’t like him because of his career..which is what I said.  In the post before it, I said that he hasn’t had much of a sample size in recent years. Again, I mentioned the K rate last year only because you cited some of his stats (you know in that same small Sample Size) and I responded that the K rate sucked..which it did. That was far from my only claim as to why I didn’t like him.

Choose to ignore it if you want. I don’t really care. I’ll go back to my point. You are a troll and a liar.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It doesn’t validate your claim. You said I said he was no good because of his K rate last year. That’s a lie.

I told You  I didn’t like him because of his career..which is what I said. 

Choose to ignore it if you want. I don’t really care. I’ll go back to my point. You are a troll and a liar.

Yes, his career of not having a high K rate and "not missing bats."

Dude, calm down.  Take a breath.

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Pickles

[Just Regular]

I don't think the Sigbot's going to feel any time pressure on John Means this winter.

2 years for younger Verlander after he won them a World Series is a yardstick for me, and one that suggests Decision Sciences are mostly skeptical about even the greatest pitchers sustaining that quality over a long period of time.

I think Wells/Irvin can cover SP5 adequately until July when Sigbot will have more data whether Dylan Cease or Corbin Burnes' arms have exploded, and if Cade Povich or Chayce McDermott are good enough to matter.

I believe there's a greater probability John Means would reject a QO after his age-31 season than there is he would reject one after his age-33 season.

Sigbot may already think 2 years out some or all of Povich-McDermott-Bright-Baumeister are stronger SP3 plays.

Bradish, Mayo and Basallo are banging on the door but until Oriole money isn't glaringly scarce, there are only four guys I think Elias is trying to give a bunch.  

[OriolesMagic83]

7 hours ago, banks703 said:

Jackson Holliday and Colton Cowser to the White Sox for Luis Robert and Dylan Cease 

 

I can't wait for the board to meltdown at this proposal. 

I don't think I would trade just Holliday for Cease and Robert.  There is a decent chance that Holliday is as good as Robert by the end of 2024.  Holliday has been progressing through the minors like a generational player.  He has a chance to be a perennial All-Star/MVP type player, imo.

[OriolesMagic83]

49 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

I don't think the Sigbot's going to feel any time pressure on John Means this winter.

2 years for younger Verlander after he won them a World Series is a yardstick for me, and one that suggests Decision Sciences are mostly skeptical about even the greatest pitchers sustaining that quality over a long period of time.

I think Wells/Irvin can cover SP5 adequately until July when Sigbot will have more data whether Dylan Cease or Corbin Burnes' arms have exploded, and if Cade Povich or Chayce McDermott are good enough to matter.

I believe there's a greater probability John Means would reject a QO after his age-31 season than there is he would reject one after his age-33 season.

Sigbot may already think 2 years out some or all of Povich-McDermott-Bright-Baumeister are stronger SP3 plays.

Bradish, Mayo and Basallo are banging on the door but until Oriole money isn't glaringly scarce, there are only four guys I think Elias is trying to give a bunch.  

It doesn't matter what guys Elias is trying to give a pile of money to, only the guys JA is willing to spend the money on.  I'll stay skeptical until he actually does.  JA is like the guy complaining about the cost of engagement rings before he ever goes shopping for one. 

[ShoelesJoe]

I think Elias & Co realize that we're not quite as good as our record this year. Our pythag has us as a 95 win team for the season, 7 games behind the Rays (pythag 102-60). If those were the actual team W/L in 2023 would we be seeing seeing a lot "if it aint broke don't fix it" arguments here? I doubt it. We need to stop acting like we're the best team in the AL because we're not, a fact that will probably become apparent during our first playoff series.

I expect there to be a significant effort to upgrade the team during the offseason, with at least one major addition to both the rotation and the bullpen. It would not surprise me if there was a major offseason trade between the Orioles and the Mariners, where we acquired a starter and reliever in exchange for 3-4 players off our roster. They got little to nothing offensively from their 1B and 2B this year and will probably miss the playoffs because of it. The right trade would be a win win for both teams. 

IMO Holliday (assuming he isn't dealt) is our starting 2B out of spring training. I also believe that we'll be moving on from Urias, Mateo, and Frazier with their spots being taken over by whoever's not traded from the Norby, Westburg, Ortiz, Mayo group. Gunnar is our SS for the foreseeable future, JH at 2B, Westburg / Ortiz / Mayo at 3B, and O'Hearn / Mayo at 1B. I think Mountcastle is odd man out and is traded. 

OF is Kjerstad, Mullins, Hays, and Cowser. I'd love to have Hicks come back, but not sure he'd want to be a part time player. Santander is DH or traded. 

GRod, Bradish, and Kremer are givens for the rotation, plus another arm acquired in a trade.  Hall, Povich, Irvin, and McDermott fight for the fifth spot with the losers in the pen. I think if Hall goes to the pen he has a breakout season as a dominant reliever. 

Opening day lineup March 28, 2024

Holliday 2B

Rutschman C

Henderson SS

Santander DH

O'Hearn 1B

Westburg 3B

Mullins CF

Hays LF

Kjerstad RF

Bradish SP

=============

Game One ALDS lineup October 5, 2024

Holliday 2B

Rutschman C

Henderson SS

Mayo 1B

Basallo DH

Westburg 3B

Mullins CF

Hays LF

Kjerstad RF

Rodriguez SP

 

 

 

 

[wildcard]

10 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Thank you for posting this..I think there is an Os fan in Sri Lanka who didn’t know this. 

I don't think anyone in Sri Lanka reads the OH.

[Rbiggs2525]

I can’t believe this thread has gone on this long. Let’s enjoy tonight and the rest of the season.