Cease vs everyone else

[coe76]

2 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Bingo. Do  we believe that Cease would be an upgrade over Kremer?

Yes, but trading Kremer still leaves you one starter short.  This trade only helps a little.  I would look to Seattle or Miami instead of the Sox.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Bingo. Do  we believe that Cease would be an upgrade over Kremer?

I do but it isn't a lock.

[Frobby]

46 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Bingo. Do  we believe that Cease would be an upgrade over Kremer?

For two years it’s a probable (not certain) upgrade.  For the two years after that, when Cease is no longer under control but Kremer is, it’s 100% a downgrade.  

[Jagwar]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

For two years it’s a probable (not certain) upgrade.  For the two years after that, when Cease is no longer under control but Kremer is, it’s 100% a downgrade.  

So I suppose my next question is... whose body of work do we trust more at this point... Cease or Kremer?

EDIT: I mean... whose body of work is more reliable in telling us who each pitcher is, not which pitcher is better

Edited December 25, 2023 by Jagwar

[Can_of_corn]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

For two years it’s a probable (not certain) upgrade.  For the two years after that, when Cease is no longer under control but Kremer is, it’s 100% a downgrade.  

It's more complicated than that.  Kremer might not even be in the league in three years. 

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, Jagwar said:

What if it was Cease for Cowser, Ortiz and Kremer?

That’s a tough one but ultimately I think it comes down to how you view Cease.   I would roll the dice on that trade but I think Elias would not.   

[DrinkinWithFermi]

12 hours ago, Frobby said:

There’s zero chance we’d do this.  

Agreed.

12 hours ago, interloper said:

It's an insane overpay and Elias is most likely not going to engage in this at the end of the day. Just doesn't seem like we're going to be the ones to get the guy IMO, and that's probably fine considering some team will eventually get desperate. 

Also it's clear they want pitching and we're not the best fit in that regard. 

Also agreed.

1 hour ago, Jagwar said:

What if it was Cease for Cowser, Ortiz and Kremer?

[Safelykept]

7 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

So I suppose my next question is... whose body of work do we trust more at this point... Cease or Kremer?

EDIT: I mean... whose body of work is more reliable in telling us who each pitcher is, not which pitcher is better

Whats the context the next 2 years or the next 4 years? Where are the WS in their thinking on their< If its more than 2 years they might not be interested in Kremer except to flip him for more prospects. The picthing their rumored to want back might just be Mcdermont povich , Seth johnson ETC, The point being if Cease is worth an overpay because Picthing is expensive Then Kremer has an elevated cost to. Whats Kremer worth.

[Safelykept]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's more complicated than that.  Kremer might not even be in the league in three years. 

And Cease can pull a John Means or any of 1000s of other pitchers Play 4 games next April get hurt and not pitch for the next 2 baseball seasons, that risk applies to all players

[Jim'sKid26]

If the White Sox want pitching then the match with the O's is more difficult. Kremer has a good bit of value that I think is being way underplayed here. Is he a tradable asset? Sure. But he has significant value. Look at what other pitchers of his caliber are getting in free agency. He's young and effective and under control until 2028. He's not a throw in on a trade for another pitcher. That makes little sense.

At the end of the day, the Reds may be more motivated to deal with Chris Getz and the WS. I doubt he gets a five play package for Cease but he might get 4 players and he wants two pitching prospects. Rhett Lowder is likely better than what the O's have to offer.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, Safelykept said:

And Cease can pull a John Means or any of 1000s of other pitchers Play 4 games next April get hurt and not pitch for the next 2 baseball seasons, that risk applies to all players

Sure. 

What does that have to do with what I said?

 

[Sports Guy]

39 minutes ago, Frobby said:

For two years it’s a probable (not certain) upgrade.  For the two years after that, when Cease is no longer under control but Kremer is, it’s 100% a downgrade.  

Here’s hoping we aren’t paying Kremer arb prices in 2-3 years.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

24 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Here’s hoping we aren’t paying Kremer arb prices in 2-3 years.

Why? If we are still paying him in 2-3 years, then he is probably performing pretty well for us, which would obviously be a good thing.

I swear, the way some people here act like Kremer is a worthless piece of crap that should be tossed in the trash at the first available opportunity is utterly bizarre.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Why? If we are still paying him in 2-3 years, then he is probably performing pretty well for us, which would obviously be a good thing.

I swear, the way some people here act like Kremer is a worthless piece of crap that should be tossed in the trash at the first available opportunity is utterly bizarre.

He is similar to Mountcastle imo. He’s fine when he’s cheap but once the money goes up, you don’t pay him, especially on a team that counts it’s pennies.

 

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Why? If we are still paying him in 2-3 years, then he is probably performing pretty well for us, which would obviously be a good thing.

I swear, the way some people here act like Kremer is a worthless piece of crap that should be tossed in the trash at the first available opportunity is utterly bizarre.

I concur 100%.   You look at what FA pitchers cost and I’d be damned happy to have Kremer’s Arb 3 year at what he’d cost.  Of course, if we develop some better alternatives between now and then, fine.  But Kremer’s a good option.