Cease vs everyone else

[sportsfan8703]

24 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Sir, this is a W̶e̶n̶d̶y̶'s̶ Cease Thread.

Brah ,Cease vs everyone else. Imanaga counts as everyone else. My overall point and how it relates to Cease is… we’re lucky the NYY, Jays, and Sawx, did not go all in and have splashy offseasons like the past. If so, that would’ve made us more desperate for a trade for Cease, since we all know we can’t play in the FA market. 

[Can_of_corn]

11 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

 

I’d say this offseason has been pretty much best case scenario for us O’s fans. 

I don't agree that an off-season in which little has been done to improve the team for next season is a best case scenario.

(I don't think Kimbrel is a ride him in the playoffs reliever at this point)

[ThisIsBirdland]

9 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I’d rather our AL East competitors add nobody. Outside of Soto, and Giolito, that’s basically happened. If you want to tie how that affects Cease… well Elias isn’t in an arms race just to catch up. Let’s say the Jays got Ohtani, the Sox got one of Snell/Montgomery, and the NYY signed Yamamota, then Elias would be feeling some heat to make a move for Cease to keep up. 

I expect the market for Snell and Montgomery will heat up now. Stroman could be this year’s Ublado/Gallardo/Cobb for us, and end up in our laps… or the CWS bite on our Cease offer. 

I’d say this offseason has been pretty much best case scenario for us O’s fans. 

I think Elias makes the best moves he can with the resources he has, regardless of what the rest of the division does. However, what teams in the division do can impact the price of his targets. In this case, the Yankees sound like the most aggressive suitor for Cease outside of Baltimore. Like the Dodgers, Reds, and Braves, I’d prefer they look elsewhere.

I don’t think comparing Stroman to Ubaldo/Gallardo/Cobb is a good way to sell his potential signing as a positive.

[sportsfan8703]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I don't agree that an off-season in which little has been done to improve the team for next season is a best case scenario.

(I don't think Kimbrel is a ride him in the playoffs reliever at this point)

Of Course we all want to add, But the AL East has only added Soto, Pepiot, and Giolito.

The AL East has lost the 4 arms the NYY traded, Severino, Montas, Sale, Ryu, Belt, Chapman, Glasnow, Margot, Raley, Stephenson, and Hicks. 

There’s still some big names out there that are difference makers. Snell, Montgomery, Stroman, Hader, Neris, Stephenson, Chapman, Cease, and Jordan Hicks.

The offseason isn’t finished, but so far I think this has been best case scenario for us. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Of Course we all want to add, But the AL East has only added Soto, Pepiot, and Giolito.

The AL East has lost the 4 arms the NYY traded, Severino, Montas, Sale, Ryu, Belt, Chapman, Glasnow, Margot, Raley, Stephenson, and Hicks. 

There’s still some big names out there that are difference makers. Snell, Montgomery, Stroman, Hader, Neris, Stephenson, Chapman, Cease, and Jordan Hicks.

The offseason isn’t finished, but so far I think this has been best case scenario for us. 

My goal for the team in 2024 isn't limited to the ALE pennant.

Edited January 10 by Can_of_corn

[Ripken]

10 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

“But this perception that we have too many prospects and we need to get rid of some of them, that doesn’t register with me.”

Yeah, this part right here... I know Elias has done an incredible job, and he's clearly the Man, but I don't agree with him.  There are guys in Norfolk that need to get out or they really start to lose value.  There are guys in Baltimore that only have 1 or 2 seasons left with the Orioles, who I'm sure Elias doesn't want to lose for nothing.  Depth is one thing but where are Norby, Ortiz, Stowers, Mountcastle, Mullins, Santander, Hays, Urias, Mateo, O'Hearn, and a few others going to be a month from now?  How about a year?  I don't believe they'll all be Orioles and I don't think he does either, regardless of what he says, not that he needs to speak any truth in the press.  Maybe none of those guys are highly valuable players but they have some worth and poor teams need to maximize value.

[RZNJ]

15 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

To me that reads “we aren’t trading our guys unless we get a bonafide difference maker back”.  Do you think the most pitch inefficient SP in MLB is that difference maker?  I don’t, I think people have been talking this to death for so long that they are just desperate for something to get done.  
 

I personally would do some of these proposals, but having watched this FO operate, I just don’t see it.  My 2 cents. 

I think Elias has been targeting Cease.  I think he considers Cease an “impact” player.   He’s got an idea what he thinks is fair and he doesn’t feel any pressure to significantly alter that.  I think he put an offer in weeks ago and no one has topped it yet but Getz is trying to squeeze a little more out of Elias.   I have no idea who is truly off limits but if I had to guess I’d say the big 3 and Kjerstad.

Cease and Snell are probably two of the most pitch inefficient pitchers in MLB.   One almost won a Cy Young and the other did.  They’re not perfect but let’s not act like they aren’t talented and capable of making a big difference.  The difference is, they can afford Cease.

Edited January 10 by RZNJ

[ThisIsBirdland]

1 minute ago, Ripken said:

Yeah, this part right here... I know Elias has done an incredible job, and he's clearly the Man, but I don't agree with him.  There are guys in Norfolk that need to get out or they really start to lose value.  There are guys in Baltimore that only have 1 or 2 seasons left with the Orioles, who I'm sure Elias doesn't want to lose for nothing.  Depth is one thing but where are Norby, Ortiz, Stowers, Mountcastle, Mullins, Santander, Hays, Urias, Mateo, O'Hearn, and a few others going to be a month from now?  How about a year?  I don't believe they'll all be Orioles and I don't think he does either, regardless of what he says, not that he needs to speak any truth in the press.  Maybe none of those guys are highly valuable players but they have some worth and poor teams need to maximize value.

Agreed, and I also think he knows that too. You just can’t go out there and say it. Much like Getz has to say he’s willing to hold Cease into the season if the offers aren’t there.

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, Ripken said:

Yeah, this part right here... I know Elias has done an incredible job, and he's clearly the Man, but I don't agree with him.  There are guys in Norfolk that need to get out or they really start to lose value.  There are guys in Baltimore that only have 1 or 2 seasons left with the Orioles, who I'm sure Elias doesn't want to lose for nothing.  Depth is one thing but where are Norby, Ortiz, Stowers, Mountcastle, Mullins, Santander, Hays, Urias, Mateo, O'Hearn, and a few others going to be a month from now?  How about a year?  I don't believe they'll all be Orioles and I don't think he does either, regardless of what he says, not that he needs to speak any truth in the press.  Maybe none of those guys are highly valuable players but they have some worth and poor teams need to maximize value.

I believe he has a plan.  I just have no idea what it is yet.

[wildbillhiccup]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

My goal for the team in 2024 isn't limited to the ALE pennant.

How many steins of beer does one have to drink to win the Ale pennant? 

[Sports Guy]

https://nypost.com/2024/01/09/sports/white-sox-gm-on-interest-for-dylan-cease-by-yankees-and-others/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nypost_sports&sr_share=twitter&utm_source=twitter
 

3 premium prospects.

That can mean so many things.

[Number5]

5 hours ago, RVAOsFan said:

 

If his goal is to improve the club today, as in this season, that explains a lot.  Heck, forget the prospects, offer him Santander and Mateo.  Done deal.  LOL.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

4 hours ago, SoxFan3344 said:

If it takes Kjerstad, Ortiz, and Povich to keep Cease away from the Yankees, are you doing it?

I would not do that deal and I don't think Mike Elias would either.

The possibility of the Yankees acquiring him instead of us doesn't really bother me all that much. In fact, the Yankees acquiring him might actually be a net positive for the Orioles in the long run if they are meeting Getz's current astronomical ask or something close to it, especially after they already dealt away a sizable chunk of their farm system for 1 year of Juan Soto this offseason. They can spend every year but the Yankees were at their most dangerous when they could consistently sign the star free agents while also consistently producing their own stars like Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Andy Petitte, Bernie Williams, and Mariano Rivera to fill out the rest of the roster around the big name, big contract mercenaries.

That all said, I would be willing to include both Povich and Ortiz in a hypothetical Cease package, and there are plenty of other exciting guys in the Orioles system that could be included in the return along with them- Connor Norby, Dylan Beavers, Mac Horvath, and Jud Fabian for a few examples- so maybe Povich, Ortiz, Beavers, and Mike Baumann? Using MLB Pipeline's prospect rankings, that would be 3 top 11 guys from one of the best farm systems in the sport, including the #50 overall prospect in Ortiz, plus Mike Baumann, who is an interesting young MLB arm that pitched pretty decently in the bigs in 2023 and has 5 years of control left, and who could potentially help you backfill some of Cease's innings in 2024 or possibly be given a look in the late inning mix, where his up-to 97 mph fastball would look right at home. I might even be willing to toss in another lesser piece that Getz and his staff like- Max Wagner, Juan Nunez, Billy Cook, etc. 

[Number5]

15 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

I would not do that deal and I don't think Mike Elias would either.

The possibility of the Yankees acquiring him instead of us doesn't really bother me all that much. In fact, the Yankees acquiring him might actually be a net positive for the Orioles in the long run if they are meeting Getz's current astronomical ask or something close to it, especially after they already dealt away a sizable chunk of their farm system for 1 year of Juan Soto this offseason. They can spend every year but the Yankees were at their most dangerous when they could consistently sign the star free agents while also consistently producing their own stars like Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Andy Petitte, Bernie Williams, and Mariano Rivera to fill out the rest of the roster around the big name, big contract mercenaries.

That all said, I would be willing to include both Povich and Ortiz in a hypothetical Cease package, and there are plenty of other exciting guys in the Orioles system that could be included in the return along with them- Connor Norby, Dylan Beavers, Mac Horvath, and Jud Fabian for a few examples- so maybe Povich, Ortiz, Beavers, and Mike Baumann? Using MLB Pipeline's prospect rankings, that would be 3 top 11 guys from one of the best farm systems in the sport, including the #50 overall prospect in Ortiz, plus Mike Baumann, who is an interesting young MLB arm that pitched pretty decently in the bigs in 2023 and has 5 years of control left, and who could potentially help you backfill some of Cease's innings in 2024 or possibly be given a look in the late inning mix, where his up-to 97 mph fastball would look right at home. I might even be willing to toss in another lesser piece that Getz and his staff like- Max Wagner, Juan Nunez, Billy Cook, etc. 

I have no interest in overpaying.  I agree with the first part of your post - let NYY overpay.  I don't agree with trading away the package you suggest for 2 years of Cease.  I'm hoping Elias passes on that.

[Number5]

5 hours ago, SoxFan3344 said:

If it takes Kjerstad, Ortiz, and Povich to keep Cease away from the Yankees, are you doing it?

No.  Just no.