Is Luzardo a realistic target?

[Jagwar]

On 12/14/2023 at 4:20 PM, Frobby said:

It would depend who else was in the deal, I suppose.  Obviously Miami would not swap Luzardo for Hays.  

But they might swap Luzardo for Hays, Cowser... Kremer?

[sportsfan8703]

Hays, O’Hearn, Ortiz, and Povich/De Leon for Luzardo. 
 

Cowser takes over LF. Kjerstad for O’Hearn. Maybe we bring back Hicks. 

We get our TOR SP. The Marlins get two immediate starting position players. Their long term answer at SS to keep Jazz Chisholm in CF, and lefty pitching that teams usually have to give up to make these deals for pitching happen. 

[Roll Tide]

17 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Hays, O’Hearn, Ortiz, and Povich/De Leon for Luzardo. 
 

Cowser takes over LF. Kjerstad for O’Hearn. Maybe we bring back Hicks. 

We get our TOR SP. The Marlins get two immediate starting position players. Their long term answer at SS to keep Jazz Chisholm in CF, and lefty pitching that teams usually have to give up to make these deals for pitching happen. 

Based on the article below, I’d offer them Santander, Mountcastle/Hays/Urias and Creed Willems. 

If they balk ….. Santander, Ortiz, and Willems 

 

https://marlinmaniac.com/posts/off-season-needs-the-miami-marlins-have-ranked-by-importance-with-one-big-glaring-need-01he4b715yj3

 

[Going Underground]

Who knows if the Marlins said to the Royals that they want alot more back in a trade.? Royals then decided to go after Wacha.

[OriolesMagic83]

2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Based on the article below, I’d offer them Santander, Mountcastle/Hays/Urias and Creed Willems. 

If they balk ….. Santander, Ortiz, and Willems 

 

https://marlinmaniac.com/posts/off-season-needs-the-miami-marlins-have-ranked-by-importance-with-one-big-glaring-need-01he4b715yj3

 

How would Santander, Ortiz, Handley and McDermott work?  

[ChosenOne21]

4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Hays, O’Hearn, Ortiz, and Povich/De Leon for Luzardo. 
 

Cowser takes over LF. Kjerstad for O’Hearn. Maybe we bring back Hicks. 

We get our TOR SP. The Marlins get two immediate starting position players. Their long term answer at SS to keep Jazz Chisholm in CF, and lefty pitching that teams usually have to give up to make these deals for pitching happen. 

 

3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Based on the article below, I’d offer them Santander, Mountcastle/Hays/Urias and Creed Willems. 

If they balk ….. Santander, Ortiz, and Willems 

 

https://marlinmaniac.com/posts/off-season-needs-the-miami-marlins-have-ranked-by-importance-with-one-big-glaring-need-01he4b715yj3

 

That's not even half of what we'd have to trade for Luzardo. They're not going to trade a TOR with three years of control for two years of a solid, increasingly expensive and injury prone outfielder, a platoon first baseman with a sketchy track record and one year of control, a solid infield prospect and a solid pitching prospect. Like, maybe they don't just slam the phone down if they're in love with Ortiz and Povich.

Would you trade Kyle Bradish for those guys? Luzardo is arguably more valuable. You MIGHT be able to get away with Colton Cowser as the headliner, but they'll probably demand Mayo or Basallo and not budge.

Santander, Ortiz, and Willems is a total fantasy. The kind of trade you force through in a video game with a cheat code.

I think the absolute minimum we might be able to get him for is Cowser, two out of three of Ortiz, Hall, Povich, and two low minors guys they really like. Maybe De Leon and someone else?

Edited December 16, 2023 by ChosenOne21

[ChosenOne21]

4 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

How would Santander, Ortiz, Handley and McDermott work?  

I'll have what you're having

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, ChosenOne21 said:

 

That's not even half of what we'd have to trade for Luzardo. They're not going to trade a TOR with three years of control for two years of a solid, increasingly expensive and injury prone outfielder, a platoon first baseman with a sketchy track record and one year of control, a solid infield prospect and a solid pitching prospect. Like, maybe they don't just slam the phone down if they're in love with Ortiz and Povich.

Would you trade Kyle Bradish for those guys? Luzardo is arguably more valuable. You MIGHT be able to get away with Colton Cowser as the headliner, but they'll probably demand Mayo or Basallo and not budge.

Santander, Ortiz, and Willems is a total fantasy. The kind of trade you force through in a video game with a cheat code.

They need a DH, OF, SS, and catcher. They only scored 666 runs. Santander only is a 3 WAR player. . Ortiz is a top 100 prospect, Norby is a fringe Top 100, and Willems is also a solid prospect. I’d be Okay sending Santander & Hays plus but I’d be surprised if Elias would.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Roll Tide

[ChosenOne21]

10 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

They need a DH, OF, SS, and catcher. They only scored 666 runs. Santander only is a 3 WAR player. And yes he’s got 1 year of control yet White Sox fans want 2 top 100 prospects plus for him. Ortiz is a top 100 prospect, Norby is a fringe Top 100, and Willems is also a solid prospect. I’d be Okay sending Santander & Hays plus but I’d be surprised if Elias would.

Just to be clear, you are talking about trading for Jesus Luzardo, right?

Santander is a 3 WAR player if healthy. He also only has one year of control left and will probably cost around $12 million. That limits his value.

Ortiz fills the SS need, sure.

Willems doesn't help them out at catcher next year or probably ever. Dude is a longshot to be a meaningful contributor at the ML level.

If the Marlins came to you asking for Bradish and offering the equivalent of Santander, Ortiz, Willems, you'd laugh them out of the room. Even if the O's had needs at OF, SS and C

Edited December 16, 2023 by ChosenOne21

[Frobby]

28 minutes ago, ChosenOne21 said:

Just to be clear, you are talking about trading for Jesus Luzardo, right?

Santander is a 3 WAR player if healthy. He also only has one year of control left and will probably cost around $12 million. That limits his value.

Ortiz fills the SS need, sure.

Willems doesn't help them out at catcher next year or probably ever. Dude is a longshot to be a meaningful contributor at the ML level.

If the Marlins came to you asking for Bradish and offering the equivalent of Santander, Ortiz, Willems, you'd laugh them out of the room. Even if the O's had needs at OF, SS and C

I agree that package is not enough for Luzardo, but the Bradish analogy doesn’t work at all.  Bradish is the better pitcher and he has 5 years of service remaining to Luzardo’s 3.  It’s also hard to think about since we need pitching and not OF, SS or C (despite your last sentence assuming that away).  

[ThisIsBirdland]

Interesting that Rosenthal suggests a Pasquantino for Luzardo deal might have been enough? I guess extra pieces may have been involved, but it doesn’t really read that way. 
 

I’ve always assumed Luzardo would require either Mayo or Basallo so I’ve stayed somewhat detached but Pasquantino being the centerpiece makes me think we could come up with something that would work. 

[Rbiggs2525]

I see a lot of trade proposals with the Marlins taking money on. I think you can only trade one of Hays, Urias, Mountcastle if they will even do that. Also, the Marlins will have a lot of trade proposals. I would first propose Westburg, Norby, Kremer, and a throw in. I believe Mayo, Ortiz, Kremer probably gets it done. I have Mayo as untouchable but it’s the price you pay for controllable pitching. Teams are now giving up prospects to spend less money. Look at the Braves trade yesterday. 

[joelala]

34 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

Interesting that Rosenthal suggests a Pasquantino for Luzardo deal might have been enough? I guess extra pieces may have been involved, but it doesn’t really read that way. 
 

I’ve always assumed Luzardo would require either Mayo or Basallo so I’ve stayed somewhat detached but Pasquantino being the centerpiece makes me think we could come up with something that would work. 

Kjerstad and Povich. I think that would get it done. 

[DirtyBird]

49 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 It’s also hard to think about since we need pitching and not OF, SS or C (despite your last sentence assuming that away).  

But we do need OF

[DirtyBird]

6 minutes ago, joelala said:

Kjerstad and Povich. I think that would get it done. 

Not sure why would trade a solid SP prospect while we are doing an exercise of seeing how difficult SP is to acquire.