Roster implications for trading Ortiz

[Sports Guy]

This had to be done. Been saying it for months. One of Westburg or Ortiz had to go. You don’t have a talent like that to be a uti guy. You use it to acquire something you need and that is exactly what Elias did.

As for the roster implications…first off, it makes it more possible Holliday starts here on OD. I still don’t think it happens but it’s possible.

The reality is that the Os now have 3 IFers that can play Multiple positions and with the way they like versatility, that may be how they do it.

I still say Holliday ends up at SS and Gunnar ends up at third. I think Westburg is solidly the choice at second.

I suspect, to begin the year, that the Os play Mateo vs lefties. Urias will get some time, if not traded, and Mayo and Holliday will go to AAA to work on defense and refining some skills.

I still think you could see Santander, Mounty or Hays dealt, especially if it means adding a high leverage reliever who is cheap and has team control in the deal. That makes sense to me.  Keep clearing some of this out.

[eddie83]

4 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

I don’t think you have to commit to any of them at just one position, although I see Gunnar playing SS nearly everyday.

Westburg and Mayo will be moved around and Holliday could be too. Elias is big on versatility. 

I don’t expect them to juggle Holliday/Westburg/Mayo around in a 3 for 2 mix. Also have Urias on roster. 
 

Anything is possible and yes flexibility helps. 
 

Now if Mayo is here OD then yes he would mainly be at 3rd. 

[banks703]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

If you commit to Mayo at 3rd then you are committing to Holliday at 2nd. Gunnar is playing somewhere on the left side. 

Which is what I’ve been posting for the better part of a year. I’ve never seen Holliday as a ML SS. His bat probably convinces other organizations to overlook the defensive liabilities but the O’s have the luxury of Gunnar.

I think they go with Mayo out of the gate simply because they don’t need Holliday’s bat to compete for the division and have enough everywhere else that they can weather Mayo’s growing pains.  

[ChuckS]

5 minutes ago, dystopia said:

I think he will, but if he doesn't, I don't see him spending much time in AAA. 

Either way, Ortiz was blocked long term. He had to be dealt.

Or Westburg could have been dealt. The Brewers could have demanded Westburg instead of Ortiz. 

It’s easy to make statements like that after they happen, as if it was always inevitable.  Nothing is inevitable. There’s always multiple paths. 

Edited February 2 by ChuckS

[owknows]

38 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The expectation was that he would make the team but the Orioles are still fine without him. possible scenarios:

3B: Westburg
SS: Gunnar
2B: Urias
UTL: Mateo

3B: Mayo
SS: Gunnar
2B: Westburg
UTL: Mateo

3B: Westburg
SS: Gunnar
2B: Holliday
Utl: Mateo

3B: Westburg
SS: Gunnar
2B: Norby
Utl: Mateo

 

That's a little too much Mateo.

[ChuckS]

Just now, owknows said:

That's a little too much Mateo.

I rather have Urias as my utility guy and Mateo off the roster. 

[eddie83]

2 minutes ago, banks703 said:

Which is what I’ve been posting for the better part of a year. I’ve never seen Holliday as a ML SS. His bat probably convinces other organizations to overlook the defensive liabilities but the O’s have the luxury of Gunnar.

I think they go with Mayo out of the gate simply because they don’t need Holliday’s bat to compete for the division and have enough everywhere else that they can weather Mayo’s growing pains.  

Time will tell. 
 

The fact that Mayo is a big boy who can also play a corner spot will adds to things. Ultimately the flexibility allows if one of them struggles they can easily move guys around. 

[dystopia]

Just now, ChuckS said:

Or Westburg could have been dealt. The Brewers could have demanded Westburg instead of Ortiz. 

It’s easy to make statements like that after they happen, as if it was always inevitable.  Nothing is inevitable. There’s always multiple paths. 

Well yes, I should have said one of Ortiz/Westburg had to go. There were some rumors that the O's valued Westburg more than Ortiz though. Seems that may have been true.

[spleen1015]

Of the 2, Mayo or Holliday, Mayo makes it out of ST if either of them do. Elias likes to get long looks at guys at each level and I don't think Holliday was in Norfolk long enough. He did skyrocket up the minors last year, but he wasn't as good in Norfolk as he was every where else. Elias will give him more time to bake in AAA.

Elias also hasn't had anyone make the ML roster out of ST that didn't at least play in the majors the year before. That makes me leary if either makes it, but with no Frazier and Ortiz now traded, one of them has to make it.

But, there's a first time for everything.

Edited February 2 by spleen1015

[Roy Firestone]

15 minutes ago, scarey1999 said:

Presuming Holliday makes the OD roster, I’m still sticking with option 3 being the primary IF lineup we’ll see on the field in ‘24. 

I’m also working under the assumption Mayo doesn’t break camp with the team. 

I know for a fact that they told Coby Mayo to NOT be disappointed if he doesnt make the opening day roster this year...but that was BEFORE they traded Joey.

[scarey1999]

8 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

You would presume they would skip Holliday, the younger and less experienced prospect, over Mayo?

It’s possible, but would seem to be the less likely scenario to me. 

 

Yes, despite the younger age, Holliday is more ML ready. I also think they want Mayo to continue to get work at and further improve his 3B defense at AAA and probably get reps in RF. 

[Big Mac]

Just now, scarey1999 said:

Yes, despite the younger age, Holliday is more ML ready. I also think they want Mayo to continue to get work at and further improve his 3B defense at AAA and probably get reps in RF. 

I think Mayo's bat is much more major league ready than Holliday's. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

If Holliday or Mayo look like a better player than Urias on Opening Day then they’re in the lineup on Opening Day. I said this in the Burnes thread, but trading for 1 year of Burnes means you are putting a big present value premium on that year. It doesn’t make sense to then turn around and give back wins in that year by keeping your best players in AAA. 

Holliday and Mayo were probably not going to be better starting options than Ortiz, but it’s much more likely over Urias. 

If Holliday/Mayo look like the real deal, fully MLB ready in Spring Training, you can’t just send them down for 3 weeks to get the extra year. There’s too much risk they turn around and win ROY. You need to keep them down long enough to take them out of ROY contention, and if you’re doing that then you’re probably costing 2024 wins that you put a premium on acquiring through Burnes. 

Now, if they don’t think Holliday/Mayo are ready to be better than Urias on Opening Day, then they’ll be sent down. But the service time aspect is not going to be an overwhelming factor in the decision - it’s going to be “put the best team on the field.”

The projection systems are fully bought into Holliday being nearly a 3 WAR player immediately, for 2024, and if the Orioles feel the same way he’s the starting 2B on Opening Day. 

[banks703]

Just now, eddie83 said:

Time will tell. 
 

The fact that Mayo is a big boy who can also play a corner spot will adds to things. Ultimately the flexibility allows if one of them struggles they can easily move guys around. 

With Gunnar you have above average, borderline elite defense and very good range, even for a bigger kid. This affords them some capacity to allow Mayo to play his way off of third base. I realize that he’s a big kid but it’s not like he’s Pablo Sandoval at 300 lbs over there. He’s big as in he’s 6’5 and built like a Tight End. He’s athletic and has a cannon. He’s lateral movement/quickness and footwork is the question. Personally I think he’s more likely to stick at 3B than Holliday is likely to stick as a SS.

[Ripken]

None, really.  Nothing of real consequence anyway.  Urias and Mateo are here and we were all waiting for someone to be dealt.  If it had been one of those two, Ortiz likely makes the team.  Now they are probably both still Orioles and Joey can eat all the bratwursts he wants.

Holliday has a better chance of sticking.  This is ridiculously fun.