If Holliday Goes Down Who Comes Up

[connja]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Kjerstad for a LHB or Norby for 2B. Depends the direction they want to go but seems like they value the LHB and Kjerstad is already on the 40 man roster. Urias would move into the lineup which is fine as he hits RHP.

Gunnar SS, Adley C, Santander DH, O'Hearn 1B, Cowser LF, Kjerstad RF, Mullins CF, Westburg 2B, Urias 3B (McCann, Mateo, Hays, Mountcastle)

If Urias struggles, bring up whoever is doing better between Holliday and Norby.

I'd like to see both Kjerstand and Norby.  Get rid of Urias as well.  Though I suppose we could also promote Mayo and move Westy to 2B.  Good problems!

[Otter]

I don't think Elias will do this, but if Holliday goes down I'd like to see Norby brought up and given an opportunity to start 60-70% of time at 2B.  I know OF is probably his long term home if he stays in the organization, but as long as he can play a mediocre 2B I'd like to see how his bat plays in the majors.  However, even if Elias brings him up I suspect he sits on the bench in favor of Mateo/Urias.

[Bemorewins]

5 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Do the Orioles platoon Urias and Mateo (Urias is historically better against RHP) at 2B and leave Westburg at 3B?   This seems most likely to me.   In this case, you’d assume Holliday is replaced by a reserve infielder.   We lost Diego Castillo and Livan Soto on waivers and Nick Matón is currently on the IL at Norfolk.   Norby?  Errol Robinson?   Neither is on the 40 man.

Do the Orioles move Westburg to 2B and risk 3B to another rookie adjustment and questionable defense by calling up Mayo?   This seems less likely but certainly an option.

Any other possibilities?

I think that you stick with the kid for another week to see if he can start to right the ship. If in that case he cannot, you may need to send him to AAA for a reset. In the meantime, you do not call for another lesser talented prospect (which is all of them behind him) to come up lest we have the same acclimation issue. You probably turn back to Urias at 3B for the time being and slide Westburg back over to 2B.

However, the offense has been fine even with Holliday not giving you anything. The bigger problem is on the pitching side. Only 2 of our 5 starters are really effective with any consistency (not sure what we have yet in Suarez). And we only have 3 reliable BP arms. The other 5 are shaky.

[oriole]

1 hour ago, Otter said:

I don't think Elias will do this, but if Holliday goes down I'd like to see Norby brought up and given an opportunity to start 60-70% of time at 2B.  I know OF is probably his long term home if he stays in the organization, but as long as he can play a mediocre 2B I'd like to see how his bat plays in the majors.  However, even if Elias brings him up I suspect he sits on the bench in favor of Mateo/Urias.

My guess is Elias doesn’t want to risk Norby going through a Holliday level stretch of abysmal play and ruin his trade value. Norby seems like a sure thing to be trade bait this summer.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, oriole said:

My guess is Elias doesn’t want to risk Norby going through a Holliday level stretch of abysmal play and ruin his trade value. Norby seems like a sure thing to be trade bait this summer.

Or last offseason, or last summer.

[Malike]

21 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Or last offseason, or last summer.

I'm sure he was floated around, bat first no glove guys have limited trade value as a centerpiece.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Malike said:

I'm sure he was floated around, bat first no glove guys have limited trade value as a centerpiece.

The value doesn't go up as they age.

[interloper]

It would have been nice to have Soto around. I would have DFAd Ort instead.

[RZNJ]

40 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I think that you stick with the kid for another week to see if he can start to right the ship. If in that case he cannot, you may need to send him to AAA for a reset. In the meantime, you do not call for another lesser talented prospect (which is all of them behind him) to come up lest we have the same acclimation issue. You probably turn back to Urias at 3B for the time being and slide Westburg back over to 2B.

However, the offense has been fine even with Holliday not giving you anything. The bigger problem is on the pitching side. Only 2 of our 5 starters are really effective with any consistency (not sure what we have yet in Suarez). And we only have 3 reliable BP arms. The other 5 are shaky.

I think Kremer has proven himself to be a reliable starter.   Bradish is close to coming back barring any setbacks.  If he’s full strength then he’s number 4.  Number 5 is between Wells, Means, Irvin, and Suarez.  The bullpen gets fortified by 2-3 of those guys.  It’s unsettled right now but there are potential in house solutions.   The bullpen, except  for Baumann, was solid before last night.   We’ll be in a better position to judge in about 2 weeks.

[Malike]

22 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The value doesn't go up as they age.

He's the same age today as he was during the off-season. 

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I think Kremer has proven himself to be a reliable starter.   Bradish is close to coming back barring any setbacks.  If he’s full strength then he’s number 4.  Number 5 is between Wells, Means, Irvin, and Suarez.  The bullpen gets fortified by 2-3 of those guys.  It’s unsettled right now but there are potential in house solutions.   The bullpen, except  for Baumann, was solid before last night.   We’ll be in a better position to judge in about 2 weeks.

I'm not sure what you mean by "reliable starter" if you mean that he will be available and post every 5th. Then sure I agree. If you mean you can count on a reliable good performance. Then no, I can't go with you there. He is very much Jekyll and Hyde. You never know which Kremer you will get from start to start. And he is certainly no #3 starter.

If Bradish returns back to being himself, he will help anchor the top 3 of the rotation. I have no faith in Wells being a starter and Irvin sucks as a starter IMO. I don't know based on Means' performance in his rehab starts at AAA, what's wrong with him or if he can get it righted this year? - He has been hurt an awful lot (not just the TJ) the last 2+ years now.

I liked what I saw from Suarez. But it was only one start.

I hope Wells can come back and add to the bullpen. But his penchant for giving up homers (even when he is pitching very well) really scares me. I guess Irvin can give you some length as a potential long man. But I don't think very highly of his potential to contribute much beyond that. I really don't like his pitch arsenal combined with his poor command. He has one good pitch (a curveball). Maybe that can work in short stints like Coulombe?

Baumann is not very good, neither is Akin, Ramirez or Tate for that matter. I trust none of them in a high leverage situation.

[oriole]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Or last offseason, or last summer.

I mean, at this point you’ve really got to wonder what is going on. Norby has proven himself at AAA, there’s a need for a productive 2B (until Holliday can prove to be ready, not saying to send him down today but it’s looking ugly so far), and he hasn’t been traded yet. If I had to guess, he’ll be traded at the deadline this year. 

[oriole]

32 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "reliable starter" if you mean that he will be available and post every 5th. Then sure I agree. If you mean you can count on a reliable good performance. Then no, I can't go with you there. He is very much Jekyll and Hyde. You never know which Kremer you will get from start to start. And he is certainly no #3 starter.

If Bradish returns back to being himself, he will help anchor the top 3 of the rotation. I have no faith in Wells being a starter and Irvin sucks as a starter IMO. I don't know based on Means' performance in his rehab starts at AAA, what's wrong with him or if he can get it righted this year? - He has been hurt an awful lot (not just the TJ) the last 2+ years now.

I liked what I saw from Suarez. But it was only one start.

I hope Wells can come back and add to the bullpen. But his penchant for giving up homers (even when he is pitching very well) really scares me. I guess Irvin can give you some length as a potential long man. But I don't think very highly of his potential to contribute much beyond that. I really don't like his pitch arsenal combined with his poor command. He has one good pitch (a curveball). Maybe that can work in short stints like Coulombe?

Baumann is not very good, neither is Akin, Ramirez or Tate for that matter. I trust none of them in a high leverage situation.

During the off-season I had mentioned in a couple threads that Kremer should be the 6th starter and two starters should be acquired. Anyone who engaged with me disagreed pretty vehemently but his performance so far this year is a good example of why I felt that way. Granted, he was a decent 5th starter last year so I totally understand why someone would’ve pushed back on that idea but he’d be great depth rather than a mainstay of the rotation right now.

[Bahama O's Fan]

We resign Tony Kenp!!!

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Malike said:

He's the same age today as he was during the off-season. 

Really?  I didn’t know that was possible.