FIX THE DANG BULLPEN

[Aristotelian]

15 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

So, the question is, with an ERA over 12, why was he brought up in the first place?

He had been on a major heater in Norfolk, even outperforming Povich and McDermott. But I think the main reason was to eat innings, which he admittedly failed to do. 

[sportsfan8703]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Kopech is definitely high on my list.  
 

Kopech and Nardi would be nice additions that shouldn’t cost us a ton.

Yeah, but their demands are high as heck. They probably want one of Beavers, Kjerstad, Povich, McDermott, or EBJ. 

[Frobby]

22 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

so? So was Irvin, and so was DL Hall, and so is Suarez.Most of the bullpen were or are, starters.

Next year, we want McDermott and Povich to be in the mix to be starters on our staff.  To do that, they need to maximize their experience as starters, and they also need to throw enough innings that it’s plausible for them to get through the season as starters next year.  So, they need to continue starting at Norfolk for now.  They can come up as relievers late in the season when the developmental cost isn’t as great.   

[dystopia]

23 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

So, the question is, with an ERA over 12, why was he brought up in the first place?

He must have been fresh because otherwise I got nothing. He shouldn’t be on the roster. 

[Aristotelian]

5 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

As @sportsfan8703mentioned the Orioles could get Kopech he fits the profile of what the Orioles need. Bautista is better than most, but it's not like he's the only reliever who can throw upper 90's these days in MLB.

I'm not saying it will be easy, but the Orioles have the prospects to pull off such a trade.

Kopech this year:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/michael-kopech-656629?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

Kopech is not remotely comparable to Bautista. Bautista had a 16+ K rate without having one of the worst walk rates in MLB. Kopech is closer to Fuji than to Bautista and I would trust him less than Kimbrel. 

FIP's:

Kopech 4.28

Bautista '23 1.88

Kimbrel '24 3.41

Fuji '23 (O's) 4.13

I support a major bullpen move but Kopech is not it, IMO. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

The problem is a lot of teams won’t decide whether they are buyers or sellers until right before the deadline, and even the few clear-cut sellers will likely wait until the deadline when there is a lot more demand. You’d probably have to overpay to get a team to sell a guy early.

That may be worth it, I’d be trying to get someone now and maybe Elias is too, but the reality is there’s a good chance we’re stuck with who we’ve got in the organization now until the deadline. 

Luis Gonzalez is doing very well in AAA and I think he was a Suarez-level pitching lab MiL deal hit. He’s got an elite spin fastball and 28 K / 3 BB and only 1 HR in 18.2 IP.  But he’s lefty and not on the 40-man so I don’t think we’ll see him unless there’s an injury. 

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Next year, we want McDermott and Povich to be in the mix to be starters on our staff.  To do that, they need to maximize their experience as starters, and they also need to throw enough innings that it’s plausible for them to get through the season as starters next year.  So, they need to continue starting at Norfolk for now.  They can come up as relievers late in the season when the developmental cost isn’t as great.   

Bringing McDermott up in the next 10-14 days as a reliever wouldn’t hurt his development as a SP too much. We’d get to get a good read on what he can do before the trade deadline. Also, what about the whole theory of letting guys learn to get mlb hitters out at the MLB level. 

Fire em up baby. He can always go back to starting if it doesn’t work, then he’ll have a whole offseason to get ready as a SP again. 

At the end of the day, these dudes our baseball players. The role thing, is overblown. 

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

Kopech is not remotely comparable to Bautista. Bautista had a 16+ K rate without having one of the worst walk rates in MLB. Kopech is closer to Fuji than to Bautista and I would trust him less than Kimbrel. 

FIP's:

Kopech 4.28

Bautista '23 1.88

Kimbrel '24 3.41

Fuji '23 (O's) 4.13

I support a major bullpen move but Kopech is not it, IMO. 

Kopech would not be the major bullpen move. He would be a guy to pitch in set up to help our tired bullpen right now. 

We still need a Miller, Romano, etc… type. 

[bpilktree67]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

 

No I have not been much of a believer in Perez since 2022. Coloumbe however has been excellent other than a recent rough patch, so no issues there.

 

Recent rough patch?  In his last 8 innings he has given up 2 runs 4 hits 0 walks and 7 k's   He had one game that he wasn't sharp but other then that has been great .  As i have said before people act like the bullpen can't give up any runs and expect shutdown the other team almost every time.  If you have to go 3+ innings every game you are gonna have some runs given up.  

[Aristotelian]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

Kopech would not be the major bullpen move. He would be a guy to pitch in set up to help our tired bullpen right now. 

We still need a Miller, Romano, etc… type. 

Why do we need more of the same? I thought the point of this thread was that we need an elite high leverage guy. I would not give up a lot for Kopech, especially if we need to save bullets for the "real" move. I highly doubt we trade for two veterans though and probably wouldn't support that at the realistic cost. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

10 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Bringing McDermott up in the next 10-14 days as a reliever wouldn’t hurt his development as a SP too much. We’d get to get a good read on what he can do before the trade deadline. Also, what about the whole theory of letting guys learn to get mlb hitters out at the MLB level. 

Fire em up baby. He can always go back to starting if it doesn’t work, then he’ll have a whole offseason to get ready as a SP again. 

At the end of the day, these dudes our baseball players. The role thing, is overblown. 

It’s not about role. It’s about workload. McDermott’s career high in IP was last year at 119 IP. He needs closer to a full SP workload this year to be a SP option next year. 

McDermott also needs more development. He’s on a real hot stretch lately but was walking everyone early this year, and overall has high AAA walk rates. He’ll benefit from throwing more innings as a starter at the AAA level, even if his eventual home is in the bullpen. 

[Bemorewins]

46 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

What I am saying is we could have Atlanta '24 and it will never be good enough for more than say 25% or so chance of winning the WS. Right now the Dodgers are at 19%. We want to have the best chance possible to go deep, and I think we can do better, but we are going to need both talent and luck.

Agreed, there may be other teams to look at but those are ones that have veteran talent which is the most likely match for our needs and price point. But sure, all options are on the table. 

I agree with you that championships require both talent and some luck/good fortune. However, you can have great luck, but without the requisite talent, multi-round success is not very likely. But again, I agree with everything that you have stated.

[Bemorewins]

28 minutes ago, bpilktree67 said:

Recent rough patch?  In his last 8 innings he has given up 2 runs 4 hits 0 walks and 7 k's   He had one game that he wasn't sharp but other then that has been great .  As i have said before people act like the bullpen can't give up any runs and expect shutdown the other team almost every time.  If you have to go 3+ innings every game you are gonna have some runs given up.  

There is no argument to be had in that Coloumbe has been very good and reliable during his Orioles tenure. He is probably our most trusted reliever currently. 

However, what cannot be argued is that the rest of the pen is good enough. Where are the relievers with swing and miss stuff? Where are the guys who can be trusted to get more than 3 outs in an appearance? We simply don't have those kind of guys.

Yes it would help for the starters to go a little deeper. But this bullpen top to bottom is simply not good enough right now (Coloumbe excluded).

[interloper]

9 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

There is no argument to be had in that Coloumbe has been very good and reliable during his Orioles tenure. He is probably our most trusted reliever currently. 

However, what cannot be argued is that the rest of the pen is good enough. Where are the relievers with swing and miss stuff? Where are the guys who can be trusted to get more than 3 outs in an appearance? We simply don't have those kind of guys.

Yes it would help for the starters to go a little deeper. But this bullpen top to bottom is simply not good enough right now (Coloumbe excluded).

I just find it borderline bizarre that Elias was apparently ok with rolling into the season with a bullpen full of contact-oriented relievers, none of whom have overwhelming stuff. It's like he was assuming they'd stumble across another Cano or Bautista in the system or on the waiver wire. I'm sure that's not true at all, but... how can you ONLY grab Kimbrel? It just seems like such a huge, obvious oversight. 

[George Zuverink]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

Do you strongly believe that we can succeed in the postseason for multiple rounds with this bullpen “as is”?

Frobby can defend himself, but that was a classic red herring question to divert attention. You said the bull pen had gotten progressively worse this year. He presented facts that showed that was clearly wrong, You came back with "have you stopped beating your wife yet."