Penn traded to the Marlins for IF Robert Andino

[McLovin]

I know everyone was on pins and needles waiting for my take, so here goes.

• Drew has a point - it is a bit hypocritical to keep Pie and not Penn. They both have the same sort of history.
  
• On the other hand, the O's are short on position prospects, and Penn has been passed by a new generation.
  
• If I'm a Marlins fan, I really like this trade.
  
• I think Andino is a good fit, and we'll have one of the better benches in the AL
  
• If I were GM, I would have kept Penn as the 7th man, went with a 4 man bench (maybe Cabrera until something better popped up), and cut Baez and Bass.
  
• Oh, and Flanagan really screwed us here - Penn should have never been brought up so early, and he should still have at least one option.
  

[Goop]

I wish Penn all the best. I only wish he could have panned out here.

[Mackus]

• Drew has a point - it is a bit hypocritical to keep Pie and not Penn. They both have the same sort of history.

They absolutely do not have the same sort of history. Penn has been bad the past two years at AAA, Pie has very good career numbers at AAA.

Neither have had any MLB success, but the minor league track records significantly favor Pie.

[McLovin]

They absolutely do not have the same sort of history. Penn has been bad the past two years at AAA, Pie has very good career numbers at AAA.

Neither have had any MLB success, but the minor league track records significantly favor Pie.

The are the same in terms of 'not fulfilling their promise' or even 'not taking advantage of their opportunity' YET - for varying reasons, sure. The book is still completely open on both.

[amateurfan]

Get off my back. You're such an annoyance. Gonna throw up your arms in disgust because I might describe your behavior with a five-dollar word again? Have some other petty complaint?

I said "many of us". If you want to dispute whether "many" do or don't please offer something in return - i.e., evidence that I'm wrong.

It was a joke. I should have put a :wedge:

Better?

Any other posters you want to attack while you're still on here? You may find me annoying, but at least I'm not continually bashing others. Go back and read it again - it has multiple meanings. You took it badly because you wanted to. Relax.

[Mackus]

The are the same in terms of 'not fulfilling their promise' or even 'not taking advantage of their opportunity' YET - for varying reasons, sure. The book is still completely open on both.

I disagree.

Penn hasn't shown any promise ever as far as being a prospect is concerned. If all you have to look at was over three years ago, it essentially might as well never have happened. He had some very solid seasons 3-4 years ago but that might as well have been in 1993, its too long ago to be really be relevant.

Pie has still had success at AAA even after he's struggled in the majors. Penn did that in 2006 before the appendicitis, but since then he hasn't done one thing to make anybody think he's even deserving of a spot in Bowie.

Pie has a much greater chance of being an MLB regular than Penn does, IMO. Penn is no longer a prospect. He is now Travis Driskill. He may get things together and put together a halfway decent season or two at some point in his career, but I don't think he'll be a regular for any sustained amount of time.

[Lucky Jim]

It was a joke. I should have put a :wedge:

Better?

Any other posters you want to attack while you're still on here? You may find me annoying, but at least I'm not continually bashing others. Go back and read it again - it has multiple meanings. You took it badly because you wanted to. Relax.

It was very very funny. Kudos.

[amateurfan]

Look at his minor league stats, I was including those in my thought process.

If you weren't using this year's ST performance only, then I misunderstood you, and am sorry for that.

Lots of people have been using ST as a venue to determine who should be on a team. My only stance on this concerning everyone in an Orioles' uniform is that ST ought not be used in that way. To me, it doesn't make sense.

[amateurfan]

It was very very funny. Kudos.

No ?

I'll take glory anytime - thank you.

[Lucky Jim]

I disagree.

Penn hasn't shown any promise ever as far as being a prospect is concerned. If all you have to look at was over three years ago, it essentially might as well never have happened. He had some very solid seasons 3-4 years ago but that might as well have been in 1993, its too long ago to be really be relevant.

Pie has still had success at AAA even after he's struggled in the majors. Penn did that in 2006 before the appendicitis, but since then he hasn't done one thing to make anybody think he's even deserving of a spot in Bowie.

Pie has a much greater chance of being an MLB regular than Penn does, IMO. Penn is no longer a prospect. He is now Travis Driskill. He may get things together and put together a halfway decent season or two at some point in his career, but I don't think he'll be a regular for any sustained amount of time.

I think it's probably more likely that he's Jeremy Guthrie than that he's Travis Driskill.

More likely than both is that he's Bruce Chen.

[MikeAD]

I don't like this trade, I don't understand it.

I'm going to be angrier when the final 12 or 13 man pitching staff comes out. If we keep certain players over a guy like Penn I'm going to be mad.

He will put it together in FL, and we will all be whining about it. This is a biased view I know, but what the heck, lets give this thread some variety.

[McLovin]

I disagree.

Penn hasn't shown any promise ever as far as being a prospect is concerned. If all you have to look at was over three years ago, it essentially might as well never have happened. He had some very solid seasons 3-4 years ago but that might as well have been in 1993, its too long ago to be really be relevant.

Pie has still had success at AAA even after he's struggled in the majors. Penn did that in 2006 before the appendicitis, but since then he hasn't done one thing to make anybody think he's even deserving of a spot in Bowie.

Pie has a much greater chance of being an MLB regular than Penn does, IMO. Penn is no longer a prospect. He is now Travis Driskill. He may get things together and put together a halfway decent season or two at some point in his career, but I don't think he'll be a regular for any sustained amount of time.

I dunno, maybe I'm brainwashed into thinking we had something with Penn - because for several years, he was all we really had. So in my head it's completely analogous - reality or not.

[DrungoHazewood]

The are the same in terms of 'not fulfilling their promise' or even 'not taking advantage of their opportunity' YET - for varying reasons, sure. The book is still completely open on both.

Yea, but the difference between a yo-yo'd position player and an injured young pitcher couldn't be much more stark. A very large percentage of pitchers get injured in their early 20s and never bounce back from it. I'd bet that most pitchers who were drafted high and never made it in the majors did so because they didn't have the health and endurance to regularly pitch at a high level.

There is no such concern with Pie. He just hasn't hit very well in limited major league appearances.

I look at the two players and think the Orioles' path has been completely reasonable.

[amateurfan]

I disagree.

Penn hasn't shown any promise ever as far as being a prospect is concerned. If all you have to look at was over three years ago, it essentially might as well never have happened. He had some very solid seasons 3-4 years ago but that might as well have been in 1993, its too long ago to be really be relevant.

Pie has still had success at AAA even after he's struggled in the majors. Penn did that in 2006 before the appendicitis, but since then he hasn't done one thing to make anybody think he's even deserving of a spot in Bowie.

Pie has a much greater chance of being an MLB regular than Penn does, IMO. Penn is no longer a prospect. He is now Travis Driskill. He may get things together and put together a halfway decent season or two at some point in his career, but I don't think he'll be a regular for any sustained amount of time.

Do you think this simply based on his numbers from 2007 and 2008 in the minors?

I always viewed his 2007 numbers as useless. I thought last year he was trying to do different things under (what I assumed) were instructions from above. I was under the impression that he was trying to pitch more to contact, which is a phrase used a lot by Trembley now and last year. I thought that this was considered vital to management for him to succeed in the new plan: great defense - pitch to contact and let that defense work for you. Maybe I was completely wrong.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think it's probably more likely that he's Jeremy Guthrie than that he's Travis Driskill.

More likely than both is that he's Bruce Chen.

Or Matt Riley. Or Rudy Seanez. Or whatever.

The point is that Hayden Penn got to the end of the point where the O's could hide him in the minors, and he pretty clearly wasn't a major league pitcher. That's about the point where you have to move on. You just can't give a major league roster spot to a guy who's pitched badly since 2006 and got torched in spring training. Maybe he'll eventually stay healthy for a while, but you don't let him be a mopup man with an 8.00 ERA for a year to find out.