Orioles Cannot be Complacent -- Look at History

[Sports Guy]

35 minutes ago, LGOrioles said:

Showalter had a 5 game playoff losing streak but he also won the 2012 WC game, lost in 5 games in an extremely close ALDS as the underdog, and swept the 2014 ALDS before that streak. He also never lost to a team in the playoffs that was sub .500 if you take out their record against the worst team of all time. 

The injuries were brutal and the offense sucked. That’s not on Hyde. But again, the team seemed mentally broken the last 3 months and never recovered. I really don’t care if he stays or is gone, but what happens if they start next year the same way they finished last year? Or what happens if they miss the playoffs or make them and completely flop again? You can’t just waste another year. Not saying bringing him back would be a waste. You just hope that this time next year, there’s no questioning if they should have made a change. 

I personally don’t care if he stays or goes either because I just don’t care what much about the manager.

But making a change for poops and giggles, when there is no indication a change is actually needed (that we know of), just seems like a waste to me.

[Allan Bryant]

10 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

If this is the plan. It will tell me everything that I need to know in terms of whether or not that the bar is to win a championship, or if they are aiming for a good, cheap team.

If Angelos was still our owner, we would have a good young cheap team .  But now with Rubinstein regime, what team will Orioles become ?

I’m watching closely what they decide on Burnes .  

[casadeozo]

19 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I disagree on Santander. And I was someone advocating for his resigning at certain parts of the regular season. However, it has become clear that his free swinging/swing for the fences every single AB and situation approach does not lend itself to postseason success. He makes it too easy to get himself out by making so many poor swing decisions on pitches way out of the zone.

His postseason approach was the same all season and why so many were against signing him long term. These types of hitters don’t age well. This is just who he is. So many of his walks were after fouling off balls 4, 5, 6 , and 7. If we want to really see a change in approach it starts here.

[Sports Guy]

38 minutes ago, casadeozo said:

Two things can be true at once. The team got to 91 wins but as has been discussed ad nauseum, that was propped up by the play during April and may. As we all know they were a sub 500 team in the second half. The injuries were primarily to the starting pitching and it was the offense that checked out.

the approach in the Royals series was the same approach we saw throughout most of August and September. An inability to score runs and a poor 2 strike approach. The strikeouts in this series were magnified as so many took place key RISP situations.

And that isn’t Hyde’s fault. Do you guys think he is telling the players to swing out of their shoes and swing at any pitch?

The bottom line is we have too many undisciplined hitters in the lineup.

The Yankees score 3-4 runs off of Ragans the other day. They would have taken so many of those pitches and gotten walks, upped the pitch count quicker and gotten into position to score more runs.  The Yankees are not more talented than the Os…but they may be smarter

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, Allan Bryant said:

If Angelos was still our owner, we would have a good young cheap team .  But now with Rubinstein regime, what team will Orioles become ?

I’m watching closely what they decide on Burnes .  

Being a good young cheap team ala the Rays is not going to be good enough IMO. 

I don’t think that it needs to be a Burnes or nothing offseason. There is a need/room for other players who can help.

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, casadeozo said:

His postseason approach was the same all season and why so many were against signing him long term. These types of hitters don’t age well. This is just who he is. So many of his walks were after fouling off balls 4, 5, 6 , and 7. If we want to really see a change in approach it starts here.

I agree. I would prefer that we move on from him. 

Other than homers he does nothing well.

[LGOrioles]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I personally don’t care if he stays or goes either because I just don’t care what much about the manager.

But making a change for poops and giggles, when there is no indication a change is actually needed (that we know of), just seems like a waste to me.

I don’t think it’s just for giggles though. At the end of the day, he went 0-5 in the playoffs. That doesn’t mean he needs to be fired. But it certainly makes it a question. If they at least beat the Royals, I don’t think it’s even a question that he stays. 

[casadeozo]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

And that isn’t Hyde’s fault. Do you guys think he is telling the players to swing out of their shoes and swing at any pitch?

The bottom line is we have too many undisciplined hitters in the lineup.

The Yankees score 3-4 runs off of Ragans the other day. They would have taken so many of those pitches and gotten walks, upped the pitch count quicker and gotten into position to score more runs.  The Yankees are not more talented than the Os…but they may be smarter

They also have Judge and Soto leading the league in walks which helps. They are certainly a more disciplined team. That’s why I think new hitting coaches may be needed. Clearly something changed from last year. The offense is virtually the same. Looking around the league some of the best hitting coaches are former big leaguers who use data to inform them but it seems like it’s much more an eye test than anything else. 
 

would love to add Alex Cintron or Snitker from the Astros. 

[Allan Bryant]

3 minutes ago, casadeozo said:

His postseason approach was the same all season and why so many were against signing him long term. These types of hitters don’t age well. This is just who he is. So many of his walks were after fouling off balls 4, 5, 6 , and 7. If we want to really see a change in approach it starts here.

In the two game series vs KC , Burnes pitched to 8th inning while gave up one run. He done his part .

Meanwhile Santander keeps swinging at high and outside pitches and failing to advance the runners . He didn’t do his part . 
 

They need make Burnes stay priority # 1

They need let Santander walk and collect QO pick priority # 2 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, LGOrioles said:

I don’t think it’s just for giggles though. At the end of the day, he went 0-5 in the playoffs. That doesn’t mean he needs to be fired. But it certainly makes it a question. If they at least beat the Royals, I don’t think it’s even a question that he stays. 

So in a tiny sample size where the Os had bad luck, injuries and yes, some poor execution, that outweighs all the good of the last 3 years?

[Allan Bryant]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I agree. I would prefer that we move on from him. 

Other than homers he does nothing well.

Totally agree . He reminds me so much of Mark Trumbo and Chris Davis .  Give him the QO and let him get his bag somewhere else 

[eddie83]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So in a tiny sample size where the Os had bad luck, injuries and yes, some poor execution, that outweighs all the good of the last 3 years?

Like you said Adley hit the ball harder than Witt’s winning hit Game 1. A few feet here or there make all the difference . 
 

Get Adley well and add a professional hitter. Get Jackson going. Thing is they can win 100 games and the division and until they do it in the playoffs the narrative remains. 

[webbrick2010]

It's not about being complacent, it is how do you overcome the disastrous roster building done by Elias

Without a major influx of talent this team will miss the playoffs next year

What could fix it?

Sign Will Adames, move Gunnar to 3B,  Westburg 2B

Sign Burnes

Sign a RHH, high OBP, above average defensive OF'er to replace Santander

Trade postition players that still have value (Holliday,  Mayo, Basallo) to get a pipeline of SP prospects that could be ready by end of 2025

Will Elias make any bold moves, don't think so

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, casadeozo said:

They also have Judge and Soto leading the league in walks which helps. They are certainly a more disciplined team. That’s why I think new hitting coaches may be needed. Clearly something changed from last year. The offense is virtually the same. Looking around the league some of the best hitting coaches are former big leaguers who use data to inform them but it seems like it’s much more an eye test than anything else. 
 

would love to add Alex Cintron or Snitker from the Astros. 

Actually lots of teams are using hitting and pitching coaches that were never players.

Last year, the Os walked 8.4% of the time.  This year it was 7.9%. They finished around 20th in the league both years. Last year, they saw 3.93 P/PA. This year it’s 3.9.

Did you have an issue last year?  Did you want them to change their philosophy and fire the hitting coaches then?

[LGOrioles]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So in a tiny sample size where the Os had bad luck, injuries and yes, some poor execution, that outweighs all the good of the last 3 years?

Where they are right now, yes. The goal this year wasn’t to just make the playoffs, it was to win. All year they talked about revenge for last year, getting in, and getting hot. They got in and completely fell flat.