Showalter and trades this offseason

[wildcard]

So, we add Konerko, Crawford and Furcal...That's not enough for the young players to be good and for the offense to be good?

The competition for Crawford is going to be fierce. The Yankee, Red Sox and several other teams have a need that he will full. I don't see the O's paying what it would take to get Crawford because of the outfielders they already have.

I like getting Konerko but his current numbers are probably much higher then he can be projected to put up next year. He is probably a 825-850 OPS guy. Along with guys like Lee, Pena and Beckman as FAs, the O's have to get one of them.

Furcal is not a FA and what the Dodgers would want for him is a huge factor in acquiring him.

[weams]

If those 3-4 (not 4-5 BTW as they each only have 1 season left not 2 or 1.5 under team control) players traded for Fielder or Gonzalez ensures that Jones and Wieters are allowed to relax and therefore achieve their offensive potential and allows Markakis to return to his, it will have been well worth the risk of having them walk and not being able to re-sign or extend them.

We need one of them now, not in 2012, otherwise we risk another season of offensive ineptitude.

Always, no sometimes, think it's me, but you know

I know when it's a dream.

I think I know I mean a 'Yes'

but it's all wrong,

that is I think I disagree.

[Sports Guy]

With Fielder there definitely is a risk, there's no denying that. I still think he is a great power hitter (is going to be better than Konerko), and someone we need badly. Gonzalez would definitely be the first one to go after though. I know the Pads are in trouble financially, but I find it astonishing that they would shop him around. That dude is a franchise player. Fielder, with Boras as his representation, will probably need a Tex like deal, as I said before (And I know the two do not even compare). I'm very cautious to doing that, if Gonzalez can be had at something a little more than that Tex deal, say approaching 200M or so, I'd do that in a second. I know that is a god's ton of money, but Gonzalez would be perfect for this team. Fielder I'd very much consider a Tex like deal if its on the table. Still a great player, and there's no other way of getting players like him. I'm not a fan of Konerko at all.

It would not cripple the franchise to pull off a deal like that. The upper level prospects are all familiar to everyone, and hopefully the FO knows who to keep and who to deal.

Then well start building a farm system, starting at the lower levels while maintaining a competitive team at the top.

A lot of people think we are a lot of pieces away from a contender. I do not and that is maybe the reason why everyone has their differences on this. Our core is very good, despite this abysmal year, I am confident in that. They can reach their potential, especially the position players if they have someone in the lineup who can lead the way

Sure it would...You are GREATLY overvaluing Fielder and AGon in terms of years and money...If you want to agree that we aren't likely to contend next year(and no, i don't think that is a reason not to sign talent), then you are going to waste what is LIKELY to be there best season here. Fine, whatever..The problem is, if you give them an 8 year deal, then you are likely going to be regretting the final 2 and maybe 3 years of that contract in a major way.

So then, you have basically said, I am hoping to get 4 years of above average production out of this player and hope that we can contend, make the playoffs and perhaps win a WS in that time frame.

If you do that and really increase your revenues, then everything likely works out for the best...But if you don't, then you have screwed the franchise for years and years.

[ESos92]

Sure it would...You are GREATLY overvaluing Fielder and AGon in terms of years and money...If you want to agree that we aren't likely to contend next year(and no, i don't think that is a reason not to sign talent), then you are going to waste what is LIKELY to be there best season here. Fine, whatever..The problem is, if you give them an 8 year deal, then you are likely going to be regretting the final 2 and maybe 3 years of that contract in a major way.

So then, you have basically said, I am hoping to get 4 years of above average production out of this player and hope that we can contend, make the playoffs and perhaps win a WS in that time frame.

If you do that and really increase your revenues, then everything likely works out for the best...But if you don't, then you have screwed the franchise for years and years.

I am hoping that if the o's make a move like that, we do contend, make the playoffs, and perhaps win the WS. I think the core is good enough, with a hard ass manager to get the most out of our players. At some point you have to make a move because you're hoping it'll make you contend. I think this is the move that can do that. You'd rather just wait back and see other options unfold. I think that this is a perfect time to pull off a move like that. Plus you even said the market for Fielder is weak. The FO can capitalize on that. No move is a guarantee for the better, I think this is about as sure of a guarantee you can find right now. You seem to think there will be something better down the road. I just do not.

[DrungoHazewood]

I agree but I do think there is a good chance Fielder could be had for less than you think.

Olney mentioned the other day that the Brewers were shocked at how little interest Fielder was drawing at the deadline.

Obviously, you are going to have to give up something good and obviously, what you give up has to be worth at least 2 draft picks but the total package may be less than you think.

At some point the Brewers are just going to keep Fielder and the picks rather than trade him for a lesser package. I guess it's possible you could find a sweet spot where you're only giving up one or two real prospects, but who knows...

[Sports Guy]

I am hoping that if the o's make a move like that, we do contend, make the playoffs, and perhaps win the WS. I think the core is good enough, with a hard ass manager to get the most out of our players. At some point you have to make a move because you're hoping it'll make you contend. I think this is the move that can do that. You'd rather just wait back and see other options unfold. I think that this is a perfect time to pull off a move like that. Plus you even said the market for Fielder is weak. The FO can capitalize on that. No move is a guarantee for the better, I think this is about as sure of a guarantee you can find right now. You seem to think there will be something better down the road. I just do not.

I think we should make a big run at AGon or Fielder...after the 2011 season, when they become FAs.

[Sports Guy]

At some point the Brewers are just going to keep Fielder and the picks rather than trade him for a lesser package. I guess it's possible you could find a sweet spot where you're only giving up one or two real prospects, but who knows...

Well, just as you have pointed out, the Brewers may want more immediate help..The draft picks are likely at least 2 years away from contributing for you. So, because of that, the deal may take less than you think.

Nonetheless, I still it is likely to hurt us more than help us.

[ESos92]

I think we should make a big run at AGon or Fielder...after the 2011 season, when they become FAs.

I think its best if we just beat the crowd of the numerous teams that will have interest in that off-season. I think it would be much more likely we lose out there. Personal opinion

[JTrea81]

So, we add Konerko, Crawford and Furcal...That's not enough for the young players to be good and for the offense to be good?

Who are you trading to get Furcal?

Konerko will be 35 and will require a multi-year deal and he's been trending downward defensively.

And there's no way this team gets Crawford unless you offer him a contract that he's likely not going to live up to.

The Yankees and Angels will both want him badly as well as the Red Sox IMO. That won't bode well for us.

[birdman57]

I agree but I do think there is a good chance Fielder could be had for less than you think.

Olney mentioned the other day that the Brewers were shocked at how little interest Fielder was drawing at the deadline.

Obviously, you are going to have to give up something good and obviously, what you give up has to be worth at least 2 draft picks but the total package may be less than you think.

I would roll the dice and offer them Tillman or Arrietta and another prospect (Mahoney ??) and see if they bite if the offers haven't been great:)

[JTrea81]

I think we should make a big run at AGon or Fielder...after the 2011 season, when they become FAs.

So why would Fielder sign with us if he won't re-sign after 1 year in Baltimore?

And there's no guarantee AGon will be on the FA market. He's much more likely to extend than Fielder, especially if he goes to Boston.

I think Showalter will make Gonzalez his #1 target for AM to acquire.

[DrungoHazewood]

Who are you trading to get Furcal?

Hopefully not much, since he's owed a lot of money.

Konerko will be 35 and will require a multi-year deal and he's been trending downward defensively.

Konerko's 2010 UZR/150 is by far a career low, but would fit right in with Prince Fielder's typical numbers.

And there's no way this team gets Crawford unless you offer him a contract that he's likely not going to live up to.

Isn't that your strategy for building a team - signing free agents to contracts they are exceptionally unlikely to live up to? I thought you called that "being willing to take a risk."

[DrungoHazewood]

So why would Fielder sign with us if he won't re-sign after 1 year in Baltimore?

Maybe the O's make a better offer since they didn't trade 10s of millions of dollars worth of resources to acquire Prince Fielder for 2011.

And there's no guarantee AGon will be on the FA market. He's much more likely to extend than Fielder, especially if he goes to Boston.

I think Showalter will make Gonzalez his #1 target for AM to acquire.

Why don't you just go ahead and put your name in place of Showalter's, since you clearly just use him as a proxy for how you would run the team?

[JTrea81]

I would roll the dice and offer them Tillman or Arrietta and another prospect (Mahoney ??) and see if they bite if the offers haven't been great:)

For Fielder, I think he can be acquired with Arrieta, Bell/Pie and maybe somebody like Hernandez or VandenHurk.

The Brewers desperately need pitching and don't want to pay for it on the FA market.

[hatepaste]

So why would Fielder sign with us if he won't re-sign after 1 year in Baltimore?

And there's no guarantee AGon will be on the FA market. He's much more likely to extend than Fielder, especially if he goes to Boston.

I think Showalter will make Gonzalez his #1 target for AM to acquire.

Cause you have to give up less (draft picks) in order to sign him after 2011, then you do after 2010 (prospects). I thought that was common sense?

And now you have to give up players just to think about signing him.