Showalter and trades this offseason

[Hank Scorpio]

Yes incredibly. Especially by giving up Carlos Gonzalez.

This.

End game.

[Camden_yardbird]

I am fine with Showalter having a "grass is greener" view about player personnel because McPhail has absolutely the opposite point of view most of the time. McPhail will hold onto players to a fault.

So as long as these two men respect eachothers positions and point of views we should have a solid management team making personnel decisions.

[VeveJones007]

Yes.

And while Buck did show that he was willing to take a risk, he also showed a poor ability of evaluating players...if you think this is a good thing, just so that your little premium player obsession can be satisfied, I don't know what to tell you.

To think that he screwed the pooch on Gonzalez is to assume that all of Gonzalez's power infusion was/is natural. I'm not so sure, so I'm not ready to crucify Showalter for that deal.

[Sports Guy]

This.

End game.

Well, Gonzalez did look like an overhyped prospect and while he has been awesome this year, he has an OPS at home of over 1200 and a road OPS of just over 700 and last year, the difference was well over 100 points.

Now, what beane essentially did was trade for Michael Taylor...Taylor has had an off year this year but has been very highly touted and was a beast until this year...Whether he is just going to be a bust or is going through a down year is unknown.

But it will be his progress that will determine whether that was a good deal or not.

Street has also struggled to stay healthy.

[Hank Scorpio]

I don't know if I would go so far as to call him "stupid," but that trade is a perfect example of why you have to have patience with young players.

Just kinda funny that Sly used it as an example.

[Terpdawg32]

And where was GM John Hart in that trade? John put together a string of winning seasons in Cleveland. He was thought to be a good judge of talent. I doubt that the trade was all Buck.

I'm pretty sure that was the beginning of the John Daniels era in Texas. I follow the team pretty closely and I don't remember ever hearing that Buck was the main instigator in that trade. It's all attributed to Daniels.

That being said, it's one bad trade and Daniels has proven himself over the last few years to overcome that mistake. I would not attribute this to Buck. I think people are just needing something to talk about and criticize.

[cmcgarvey]

I knew I shouldn't have opened this thread.

My thoughts exactly.

[birdman57]

I find this interesting as it was an excerpt from Camden Chat from a Rangers fan on Showalter's tenure in Texas.

Buck seems to be the type of manager to do exactly what this team needs - to deal young unproven talent (based on his evaluations of them) for proven established veterans that will help this team win now.

The Adrian Gonzalez tidbit is interesting because Buck was proved wrong there, and considering the O's and Padres match up well for a trade and have a recent trade history - the stage could be set for Buck to right a wrong and re-acquire Gonzalez for his current team now that he is an established power threat.

And the O's have several unproven young MLers to deal to get Gonzalez. Arrieta, Tillman, Bell, Pie to name a few, all who would be tantalizing for SD.

Of course Prince Fielder is out there as well, and the Brewers have made ML ready pitching a priority this offseason so they too match up well with the Orioles.

In any regard I think those who are waiting for the young players to blossom in Oriole uniforms are going to be shocked this offseason when they see these players traded for a veteran or two who will help this team win now.

Buck's tenure in Texas and Arizona have shown that he won't stick with young players if he doesn't think they are ready to help the team win, and right now we have too many question marks with the before mentioned players and what we already have in our core group. So IMO Buck will do what is neccessary and have the Orioles trade some of those question marks for surer things so we can win.

Would Buck move Arrieta and Tillman for someone like Fielder??? Not sure that would happen as long as AM is around. However I do see at least one member of the Cavalry being moved for that much sought after 1B with power. Just my two cents:)

[JTrea81]

Would Buck move Arrieta and Tillman for someone like Fielder??? Not sure that would happen as long as AM is around. However I do see at least one member of the Cavalry being moved for that much sought after 1B with power. Just my two cents:)

I don't think AM has the power to overrule him IMO because he's taken so long to produce a winner and has fallen out of favor with PGA as result.

As a result I suspect what Buck wants, he will get.

[Jimbo81]

I don't think AM has the power to overrule him because he's taken so long to produce a winner and has fallen out of favor with PGA as result.

As a result I suspect what Buck wants, he will get.

What are you talking about?????

Link?

[Birds08]

What are you talking about?????

Link?

Just like there is no way PGA would let Tex go to another team. No need for links when you are telekinetically linked to Mr. Angelos' brain.

[DrungoHazewood]

Would a trade for Fielder or Gonzalez really be that stupid?

Yes, yes it would. A 60-win team trading multiple young players with upside and years under team control at below-market rates for one expensive year of 1920 Babe Freaking Ruth would be that stupid.

I don't think AM has the power to overrule him IMO because he's taken so long to produce a winner and has fallen out of favor with PGA as result.

As a result I suspect what Buck wants, he will get.

I suspect you've wishcast all of your hopes and dreams into Buck Showalter.

[hoosiers]

I hope BS learned from that bad trade (dealing youth for average veterans) and will not repeat that mistake.

I remain cautiously optimistic that the AM and BS team at the top of our organization can be a very, very strong one.

I do hope BS helps AM to be more aggressive in filling holes and taking risks.

[JTrea81]

What are you talking about?????

Link?

Just connect the dots. It's been said MacPhail did not want Showalter as manager, because Buck wanted control over player personnel.

Buck is now manager and has seemingly more control over player personnel and baseball operations in general than any other manager since Angelos has been owner.

It's also been said about MacPhail in both in Chicago and Baltimore that he likes to have total control. So one would think there would be some conflict there and he wouldn't just give up power willingly unless he was forced to by Angelos.

Just because MacPhail seems to be toeing the company line doesn't mean that he's fully on board with what has taken place. He's a professional and he's acting like one, though it wouldn't shock me to see him resign at season's end because Buck is going to want to do things that AM isn't going to want to do like trading young unproven talent for established talent.

[Sports Guy]

Jtrea..if Buck had that trade to do again, do you think he would make it?

Do you think he looks back and says that was a smart deal?